Cross NZ with French Angora?

[dbunni]

When I say we only have so many holes ... it is not a small number ... but strong double digits. And yes, tons of room to expand. But why? If done properly you do not need tons of space/cages. But you have to cull hard and know exactly what you are looking for.

the babies ... are they pure angoras? If so, take one of them back to mom for production....when the time is right. Most angora bucks will breed around 5 months.

Wool ... awsome way to make income from angoras. But ... but ... it must be a good quality wool, no staining, and properly harvested/packaged. People want a very, very clean wool. No stains or smell. So we often use does instead of bucks. Also, nothing from "down low". I sell only midline and up across the back. This is a strong quality wool. You are looking for 3-5" ... but if you breed the doe this production will go into babies instead. We harvest from non breeders/retired animals. Breeders are kept short to help them stay comfortable. In our barn, the life cycle of a bun is simple ... show to brood (does 1-3 litters most) to wool production. Culls made along the way of course. This way we get the most out of the rabbits. You can just jump a step and go right to wool production ... learn to spin ... drop spindles are easy to make and fun to learn ... and the yarn is so dyable in a million ways (natural dyes to chemical and all in between). I have seen some awsome "painted" yarns.

Income ... start a worm business under the pens. Great income. And can be easily done... if you have drop cages. If not ... start an area outside for the worms. Recyle the "poo"!!!!

Manure ... sell by the bag or truck load. lots of that around here!

Babies ... NZ/Cali babies are butchered at/around 5#. If done properly and you have good stock, this will be around 9-11 weeks. Talk to some of the experienced meat breeders in your area they can give you an idea of their "secret recipe". And yes it does make a difference.

Just some ideas to help you out ... it is hard in the beginning ... but the buns are so worth it in the end.

Good luck ... Hug the buns!

 

[DianeS]

I'm learning a lot about what I want to do with my business plan in the future. I certainly might expand to purebred angoras after the kits are grown up (yes they're purebred) - they're only 7 weeks old right now. Unfortunately with their slow start in life and small stature I don't know if any will be good enough to breed. Time will tell.

I look forward to them getting bigger, though. I have two possible outlets for selling angora fiber, but of course they want to see samples. Time will tell.

Mom shed a small handful of wool about a month ago, and it's good quality, about 3.5 inches long and has the right feel to it. It is very nice to spin with that, even mixed with other fiber. I'm looking forward to getting more from her.

I definately collect the droppings and spilled straw, and compost it for the garden - right along with the chicken droppings and shavings. So far they've saved me about $30 in store-bought compost/manure that I don't have to buy this year because I have my own. It all goes on the garden. Maybe I'll have extra later in the year.

So far all the Cali does have given me is manure and entertainment, and a bunch of dead kits. Even the experienced mother didn't have live ones. That was a disappointment. I was looking forward to having even one meat litter as a return by now. They've all been bred again, so maybe success next time.

I did buy a litter of meat rabbits from someone else, and processed them all. I have the pelts in my freezer, waiting for a few more to join them for tanning. I don't have an outlet for pelts yet, but I can use them myself if other options fall through. Again, time will tell!

Writing all that out makes me realize how big of a holding pattern I'm in right now. No wonder I'm frustrated and looking at options!

 

[dbunni]

Diane ... where are you located? Check into the dog industry ... specifically anybody who trains hounds (whippets and greyhounds, etc) for lure coursing. They will use the rabbit pelt, untanned, for training and for the lure itself. Just a thought.

Yes, the rabbit industry can have ups and downs. We had 3 dead litters this breeding season, one from my BIS doe. We were so excited. But, mom is still alive ... so there is a silver lining!

Wool ... best harvested not shed. Once it reaches the length you want, or starts to blow (shed), remove the whole coat. This will give you a clean start for the new coat. I'm not sure of the growth rate on Frenchies, but English can be an inch or better a month. French are somewhat less. So, in essance, you could harvest ever 4 months.

Kits ... you should be seeing your keepers by now. I usually can pick my "pick" by 4 weeks ... and then pray I am correct on gender! If you are keeping for wool, keep those that are healthiest first and then what colors you can work to sell. For the best luck, have a couple of the same color this way you have that wool available in larger amounts.

Good luck ...

 

[rabbitgeek]

I thought asking about the fur/wool that would be created by such a cross was an easy question, but I guess not!

The first cross generation will not have wool.

The angora gene is recessive so it won't show in in the first cross generation.

Have a good day!
Franco Rios

 

[DianeS]

Diane ... where are you located? Check into the dog industry ... specifically anybody who trains hounds (whippets and greyhounds, etc) for lure coursing. They will use the rabbit pelt, untanned, for training and for the lure itself. Just a thought.

I had not thought about that, thank you for the idea! I'm in central Colorado (Colorado Springs).

Once it reaches the length you want, or starts to blow (shed),...

I know it's called blowing the coat when it all seems to come loose and needs to be plucked at the same time. But is it still called blowing if only part of it does? In my doe's case, a patch about three inches square on her lower back came loose and was easily plucked out, but nowhere else. Would that be blowing or shedding - or some other word?

 

[dbunni]

It's all blowing when it comes to angoras ... short coats shed. But most people are not familiar with the term so I put both to help explain.

Yes to the patch. All angoras have a different blow/shed pattern. Most start at the shoulders and move back along the spine. Could take up to 2 weeks if left to do naturally. Once the coat starts to go, in EAs, we help it along and just start plucking! But we are a plucked breed. What did the skin look like under the patch she blew? Was there any irritation or what would look like lots of dry skin? If the latter, she may have a case of wool mites and need to be treated. Check and let's talk from there. Often if they blow at the tail base it is more mites ... it is the common spot for them to have a flare up.

Colorado ... you should have some people there to use your pelts. Might have to ship, but that could be worked into the contract. If you have dog tracks that is a posibility also. They do not require the pelts to be cleaned. The lady I have just wants them in individual bags. This way they can pull out as needed without fighting the whole batch. We use ziplock larger. I supply the receipt and she adds it on to the payment. Might try posting on Craigslist or similar. Computers are great tools for research.

 

[DianeS]

Her skin, under the blown area, did not have any irritation or dryness or dandruff or anything like that. The fur was thinner there, of course, but nothing unhealthy-looking about the skin. She had some dandruff when I first got her, I added some sunflower seeds to her diet for the oil, and it seems to have worked.

I brush her regularly, and that patch just started to come out so I plucked it, but no other area would come loose. When brushing I often get a few hairs, of course, but that patch gave me a good fluffy handful of wool. (All of which I laid carefully in a row folded in tissue paper! LOL!) It's been about a month, and no new loose areas that can be plucked yet.

Do remember she was over-bred when I got her. She'd just turned a year old and was on her fourth pregnancy. So I have wondered if that could throw off her wool production for quite a while and she needs time to settle in to using her body and the available nutrition for something else. Am I thinking correctly about that?

 

[tortoise]

I thought asking about the fur/wool that would be created by such a cross was an easy question, but I guess not!

The first cross generation will not have wool.

The angora gene is recessive so it won't show in in the first cross generation.

Have a good day!
Franco Rios

The "angora gene"? Tell me about it.

 

[rabbitgeek]

The "angora gene"? Tell me about it.

It's the gene that controls the length and quality of the hair shaft. It's not a single gene as much as inheritable traits.

By observing cross breedings with furred (short hair) and wooled (long hair) rabbits, one will soon notice that rabbits from fur/wool breedings will have short hair in the first generation.

Breed the fur/wool kits to a wool rabbit and one will get fur/2wool kits with longer hair but not really wool in the second generation.

Breed the fur/2wool kits to a wool rabbit and one will start to see some rabbits with full wool (fur/3wool) while others only have long hair/short wool (fur/2wool) in the third generation.

Further selective breedings to wool rabbits will improve the length and quality of the wool.

The 2wool, 3wool references are only for illustration and are not found in anybody's genetics book.

The effect of the wool gene (traits) is (are) recessive to the normal fur gene.

There are a number of modifiers (traits) that affect the quality and length of the wool. You can have satin wool, long hairy wool, thin cottony wool, molting, non-molting, double coat and triple coat.

There is a modifier that creates the Lionhead rabbit, or the French Angora with clean (short hair) face/forelegs, the English with wool all over, the Fuzzy Lop, Jersey Wooly, and others.

As a member of NARBC (Nat'l Angora Rabbit Breeders Club) you would have received a handbook and I believe there is discussion of the wool gene in that book?

I hope this information is helpful. While I'm not a geneticist, describing in this manner the effects I've observed from breeding rabbits helps me to understand and forecast the effects for subsequent breedings.

Have a good day!
Franco Rios

 

[tortoise]

The "angora gene"? Tell me about it.

It's the gene that controls the length and quality of the hair shaft. It's not a single gene as much as inheritable traits.

By observing cross breedings with furred (short hair) and wooled (long hair) rabbits, one will soon notice that rabbits from fur/wool breedings will have short hair in the first generation.

Breed the fur/wool kits to a wool rabbit and one will get fur/2wool kits with longer hair but not really wool in the second generation.

Breed the fur/2wool kits to a wool rabbit and one will start to see some rabbits with full wool (fur/3wool) while others only have long hair/short wool (fur/2wool) in the third generation.

Further selective breedings to wool rabbits will improve the length and quality of the wool.

The 2wool, 3wool references are only for illustration and are not found in anybody's genetics book.

The effect of the wool gene (traits) is (are) recessive to the normal fur gene.

There are a number of modifiers (traits) that affect the quality and length of the wool. You can have satin wool, long hairy wool, thin cottony wool, molting, non-molting, double coat and triple coat.

There is a modifier that creates the Lionhead rabbit, or the French Angora with clean (short hair) face/forelegs, the English with wool all over, the Fuzzy Lop, Jersey Wooly, and others.

As a member of NARBC (Nat'l Angora Rabbit Breeders Club) you would have received a handbook and I believe there is discussion of the wool gene in that book?

I hope this information is helpful. While I'm not a geneticist, describing in this manner the effects I've observed from breeding rabbits helps me to understand and forecast the effects for subsequent breedings.

Have a good day!
Franco Rios

I did not receive a handbook / have not bought one. I know there are many genes that contribute to wool types. That's why I had to question the quick reference in your post that came off as there being one gene with two alleles: wooled and non wooled. Thanks for expanding on it.