Daggone it...urinary calculi

[Hykue]

Wow, I just read through this whole thread. It was very informative, thank you for posting through the whole saga. As for the meanness - sounds to me like he remembers that drench-gun you used on him so many times, no?

 

[cmjust0]

Isn't he a wether? I'm surprised he has gotten so bratty if he is! :/

Nope...he's still got all the tackle in his tacklebox.

I never really got the chance to decide what to do with Frank; to wether him and sell him as a pet, or leave him with his tackle and sell him as a buck.. Before I could decide, bang...UC.

After he got UC, I knew I had to leave his nuggets with him or he'd have no shot at outgrowing the UC....if that was even a possibility.

For the sake of his life, leaving him intact has proven to be the right thing to have done because he pees pretty good now that he's all grow'd up.....but for my life, maybe not such a great idea.

I really think it's got as much to do w/ attitude as anything.

You're probably right...but...when you get one that gets REALLY rutty and has been handled a whole lot, I figure you kinda get into that "dairy bull" situation so many cattle people talk about.. Handled, handled, and handled some more...big sweet hearts...and then they grow up and try to kill you because A) they don't see you as a threat and B) you sorta get used to them being sweet, so it comes as a bit of a surprise when they decide to grind you into the gravel one day.

sounds to me like he remembers that drench-gun you used on him so many times, no?

Could be! Maybe he's like "Remember all those times you waterboarded me? Well, take THIS!"

 

[Lisa Beck]

Hi I am a certified herbalist that specializes in animal wellness. I also have raised Nigerian dwarf goats for 16 years. I have used herbs for this condition for years with GREAT success. Historically for the animals with the urinary tract stones you want to add hydrangea to their feed. I have a client that used this on her rescue gray hound. This gray hound had 3 large stones in his bladder that would not pass. The vet wanted to do surgery and remove part of the dogs penis. Unfortunately this is normally only a temporary fix. The owner gave the hydrangea for 3 weeks and took the dog back to the vet and the stones were totally gone. Goats, cats, dogs, and humans are just a few that can suffer from kidney or bladder stones. You can purchase the hydrangea in capsule form or buy it by the pound. You add it directly to their food. The goats are the easiest ones to take it, because they do not taste it in the grain. I have had a few bucks in my time to start to strain and have crystals in the urine. The hydrangea not only can work as a preventitive but also when your animal is having signs of the slow stream and pain. If you would like any other information on this, please contact me. Thanks

 

[cmjust0]

Hi I am a certified herbalist that specializes in animal wellness. I also have raised Nigerian dwarf goats for 16 years. I have used herbs for this condition for years with GREAT success. Historically for the animals with the urinary tract stones you want to add hydrangea to their feed. I have a client that used this on her rescue gray hound. This gray hound had 3 large stones in his bladder that would not pass. The vet wanted to do surgery and remove part of the dogs penis. Unfortunately this is normally only a temporary fix. The owner gave the hydrangea for 3 weeks and took the dog back to the vet and the stones were totally gone. Goats, cats, dogs, and humans are just a few that can suffer from kidney or bladder stones. You can purchase the hydrangea in capsule form or buy it by the pound. You add it directly to their food. The goats are the easiest ones to take it, because they do not taste it in the grain. I have had a few bucks in my time to start to strain and have crystals in the urine. The hydrangea not only can work as a preventitive but also when your animal is having signs of the slow stream and pain. If you would like any other information on this, please contact me. Thanks

When one of our posters began commenting on hydrangea root, I went and did a little searching around.. It seems as though it's one of those "centuries old" secrets that cure kidney stones. Claims are that it dissolves them.

That's fine. I won't disagree with that because I don't have a dog in that fight..

The reason I don't have a dog in that fight, though, is because kidney stones and urinary calculi are completely different types of stones that form from different elements under different circumstances.

About 80% of the time, kidney stones in huans are calcium oxalate stones.. A far greater percentage of urinary calculi in goats is the result of struvite, which is magnesium ammonium phosphate.

Calcium oxalate stones are extremely difficult to dissolve, as they're basically rocks. Struvite in goats, on the other hand, is more like a sandy, crystalline...stuff...that dissolves readily in fairly mild acid.

In my experience, and based on what I've heard from A LOT of other peoples' experience, the biggest problem with UC in goats isn't necessarily getting the struvite to dissolve...it's keeping the goat's urethra from becoming inflamed and/or stopping muscle spasms of the sigmoid flexure.

Now...having said that...I'm actually about to give hydrangea root some credit. For all of you out there who are like ...O....M....G... yeah, you read that right.

Some things I've read recently -- like, actual studies done by actual clinicians -- indicates that a certain compound (halofuginone) in hydrangea root has the ability to turn off one of the body's cellular immune system's t-helper (TH17) cells, and the nasty, pro-inflammatory stuff (interleukin-17) it produces.

I've also read a few things indicating that hydrangea root can help with urinary tract infections, and urinary tract infections have long been known to be one of the causes of UC in goats. Indeed, I've actually come to believe that when you see ONE GOAT of a whole bunch develop UC while all his male herdmates are perfectly fine, there's quite likely some bacteria to blame.

See where I'm going with this? Anti-UTI + anti-inflammatory = possibly helpful.

POSSIBLY....helpful.

If you have a goat that starts straining a bit to pee, it's entirely possible that the straining is from a UTI, or UTI/UC combo.. If you catch it early enough, it may be possible that the hydrangea root could take care of the infection and turn off a t-helper cell and it's production of pro-inflammatories..

If there was struvite present, the struvite may dissolve on its own as the urine pH rises in the abscence of the infection, and the hydrangea root may keep inflammation down juuuust enough to prevent the whole works from locking up (which, btw, mimics UC perfectly -- even after the stones are long gone).

Still...there are a lot of "mights," "mays," and "it's possible" in there..

What I KNOW is that:

1) Banamine WILL reduce pain and inflammation
2) Dexamethasone WILL halt inflammatory processes
3) Liquid ammonium chloride drenching WILL dissolve struvite
4) Antibiotics WILL cure UTIs.
...and, most importantly...
5) When a goat is in trouble with UC, I don't personally have time to "try" something that may or may not work.

( <-- that's real, btw....not sarcastic. )