NH homesteader
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I am not a cattle person but this is very interesting. It's amazing (and awful) what we do to entire breeds of animals as a side effect of one thing we are trying to make easier or safer for ourselves.
Dehorning Jersey Calf
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farmerjan
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It's called genetic man-made manipulation....not natural selection....
And it is the same for all the people who "feel sorry" for an animal that has problems, born premie, birth defects, you name it and then they try to save/fix it. Then they go and breed that animal because it is "sweet" or "cute" or something. Only to perpetuate a genetic deformity that nature would have/does rule out by letting that animal die and not allowing the genes into the general breeding pool. I am not saying that things like inbreeding and other defects don't occur in nature, but as humans we interfere ALOT.
And it is the same for all the people who "feel sorry" for an animal that has problems, born premie, birth defects, you name it and then they try to save/fix it. Then they go and breed that animal because it is "sweet" or "cute" or something. Only to perpetuate a genetic deformity that nature would have/does rule out by letting that animal die and not allowing the genes into the general breeding pool. I am not saying that things like inbreeding and other defects don't occur in nature, but as humans we interfere ALOT.
greybeard
Herd Master
Yes, we interfere a lot, but if we had not, beef breeds like Hereford would still be huge frame animals. One of the reasons we see so many horned herefords that are a larger frame, is that there are fewer of them nowadys and those breeders are behind the curve somewhat in breeding down to a smaller frame animal.
You mentioned that we may be losing some hybrid vigor in general in our beef breeds, and I agree. That is because I think we have moved too far in selecting only British genetics and leaving out continental genetics--charolais, simmental, shorthorn etc.
You mentioned that we may be losing some hybrid vigor in general in our beef breeds, and I agree. That is because I think we have moved too far in selecting only British genetics and leaving out continental genetics--charolais, simmental, shorthorn etc.
farmerjan
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Original herefords were not so massive framed....they were short, stocky, cattle like the original angus. They were originally bred to put on pounds on short legs. The after they were imported here we had to have "bigger, taller" cattle. Do you remember back in the 80's and 90's when the angus were huge and they were as tall as Chianina's? I was doing some breeding for Select sires then and could not believe the size of some of the show/purebred angus.
I meant more that the horned herefords seem to have more body mass than the polled ones. I hadn't seen alot more leg but they were just so much more "hunks" than the polled ones I see. But there are no horned herefords around here that I know of. Shorthorns are also in short supply and I honestly haven't seen any that impress me. Used to be that you thought a shorthorn influence would make a good cow because she would milk better...but when they separated the milking and the "beef" shorthorns, they really lost something. Have had a dozen over the years and didn't keep any past the 3rd calf. Not saying there aren't good ones, just haven't had any luck with them myself. Simmental take longer to mature, and the calves are discounted; I used to like the various colors but now they are mostly black....Used to have a dozen or so of them too but have bred them down with the angus...I'm actually looking at some of the double muscled breeds to add muscle to the calves...want to try a little bit of AI experimenting. I like shorter legged cattle but here if they are too short it will kill them at the sale too...
Original herefords were not so massive framed....they were short, stocky, cattle like the original angus. They were originally bred to put on pounds on short legs. The after they were imported here we had to have "bigger, taller" cattle. Do you remember back in the 80's and 90's when the angus were huge and they were as tall as Chianina's? I was doing some breeding for Select sires then and could not believe the size of some of the show/purebred angus.
I meant more that the horned herefords seem to have more body mass than the polled ones. I hadn't seen alot more leg but they were just so much more "hunks" than the polled ones I see. But there are no horned herefords around here that I know of. Shorthorns are also in short supply and I honestly haven't seen any that impress me. Used to be that you thought a shorthorn influence would make a good cow because she would milk better...but when they separated the milking and the "beef" shorthorns, they really lost something. Have had a dozen over the years and didn't keep any past the 3rd calf. Not saying there aren't good ones, just haven't had any luck with them myself. Simmental take longer to mature, and the calves are discounted; I used to like the various colors but now they are mostly black....Used to have a dozen or so of them too but have bred them down with the angus...I'm actually looking at some of the double muscled breeds to add muscle to the calves...want to try a little bit of AI experimenting. I like shorter legged cattle but here if they are too short it will kill them at the sale too...
