Dental Surgery on Ovines

[JACB Dorper]

Heel low:

I have had eye surgery done on a ram lamb. Jacob needed both eye lids sew up by my vet due to a grade 3 split upper eyelid deformity. His full twin sister has six horns...duh! So I do know surgery is possible given yer vet works with you on it.

Anyhoo...I have a Dorper ewe that I have had for a coupla weeks now (going hair sheep over my geriatric Jacobs that are slowly passing on due to old age...sigh...too much fun, time flies). She looks smaller than another 2014 Dorper ewe I have and I began pondering what was up on that.

​

I have examined her closer and she has what appears to be an abscessed tooth (explains alot, eh!) -- poor gal!

I have not mauled her and put her in my head gate to have a REALLY good look but if I can figure out how to post photos...I can show what her face looks like. Here goes...

This is Spice

I have sent photos and am waiting on my vet to hear back if we can do dental surgery and yes, I know that ruminants do NOT sedate well. ​

When you look from above, she looks pretty normal but...​

Taking a closer look, you DO note something lumpy going on!​

Pretty gross on the side...I see a potential drain hole so this could be an ongoing issue for her...my sweetness OUCH! ​

Both ewes same age and marked difference in size as in chubbins​

Just wondering peoples' experiences as I see many are willing to like float a horses' mouth but when it comes to sheep, all I see are people recommending you cull the sheep with an abscessing mouth. I am not so prepared to do that if her quality of life improves and it can be done and does not cost me ALL my retirement savings where I hafta sell the farm off for the benefit of one lone sheep.

I would also like to hear anyone's experiences breeding from a ewe or ram that had abscessed teeth...how inheritable (recessive or?) is the condition and if this is her only issue, would you or would you not make more from her? Spice has an inbreeding coefficient of 8.612% so not highly inbred so I can't really blame her condition on inbred genetics.

I mean I can always supplement her with things like soaked beet pulp and a bitta whole grains too, chub her up if needed. She appears to be in no physical pain but quite frankly, if'n you DO see a sheep ill, that sheep is usually knocking on death's door in my experiences at least. I just am at a cross roads in deciding what her quality of life is, breeding potential, etc. You know, the make it or break it kinda questions we get stumped on as shepherds wanting to tend to our flocks as we are best able, eh.

Thoughts please!

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[Latestarter]

Greetings Tara and welcome to the herd side Soon as I saw the "Heel Low" I wondered if it was you (or just a Canadian thing...) I'll tag a few sheeple for you who might have ideas/suggestions.

@purplequeenvt @Roving Jacobs @SheepGirl @Bossroo @Sheepshape @The Old Ram-Australia @mysunwolf @secuono And there are others, just can't remember them all. Hope your ewe is "fixable" for you and her sake.

 

[perchie.girl]

Not a sheep person but most large animal vets can pop a tooth out and get it to drain. Might need to be on antibiotics for a while to keep infection from going systemic. There too may be a foriegn object imbeded in the gum .... Like a stick or a fox tail...

Gawd its been an aeon since i been on this site

deb

 

[Sheepshape]

Hi,Tara....you live in a lovely part of the world.....I've been to Alberta twice (yes even we folk from the woolly Welsh valleys visit at times).

Your ewe....looks like an abscess..... and abscesses can be successfully drained (they often 'pop' and drain themselves, either into the mouth or out from the skin side). Antibiotics will help to localise the pus ifs the abscess has to be surgically drained. If she has a rotten tooth, this could be pulled at the same time. Check the alignment of her teeth, if they are badly 'out' this can happen recurrently, otherwise it can be just a bit of bad luck and she has bitten on a stone whilst grazing, causing infection to get into the root of the tooth. I've had a number like this....stony thin soil here, and they have made uneventful recoveries.Usually it's not inherited, unless a bad pattern of dentition underlies it. Thinking about it, I personally have had this experience....bit on a stone in chick peas whilst in a restaurant....broke the tooth, ended up with a dental bridge (I DON'T think your vet will go this far!).

Just two other thoughts. The site of the swelling is where sheep get dental (mucous) cysts. The cyst won't be tender and won't stop her eating....it eventually disappears without sequelae.

Secondly have a good feel around to make sure she doesn't have other lumps and bums which may indicate Caseating Lymphadenitis. If she does, euthanising is the only way to go.

I like the idea of a 6 horned Jacob...I have a liking for the quirky. I have a ram lamb with 3 horns, but the third horn is not a very impressive one.

And, yes, vets often love to practice their skills. It must be SO disheartening when an illness or injury is treatable, but the owner says "Euthanise'. A young vet at our practice was very happy when I gave the 'go ahead' for eye removal rather than euthanasia on a ram we had who had been badly head-butted by another ram. So now we have Popeye the One Eyed Ram who is still a great hit with the ladies.

Well,good luck to ewe'r girl.

 

[babsbag]

That does look like an abscess, but it is not in a typical CL location so you are probably safe but if she were mine I would send a sample of the pus to a lab and have it tested. I like to know for certain what I am dealing with.

 

[norseofcourse]

For an abscess, I agree the vet's likely to pull the tooth and treat with antibiotics. With a tooth gone, he may want to check her now and then, as the tooth opposite it will not have an opposing surface to grind against and may need some filing. Good luck with her.

 

[purplequeenvt]

Are you sure it's a tooth abscess and not an abscess in her cheek?

 

[Bossroo]

Try lowering the sheep's lower lip and check if there are foxtails in her gums and /or cheek. If so, they will work their way out . They will migrate through the skin and out in what looks like a absess. I have seen this in 100's of sheep in Cal. and they heal just fine without Vet. treatment. Check the other sheeps' gums for foxtails, if you do not see any foxtails in them then it could be an abcess in that individual sheep.

 

[JACB Dorper]

Heel low:

Thanks for the greeting LS...HEEL LOW is my own personal salutation (like DOGGONE off the computer is MY signing off too...along with Chicken UP that means we chicken up like some COWBOY up...only we're yeller, eh) since I am a sub-servant to them Heeler dawgs (those two girl pups we imported from Down Under--them Australian Cattle Dogs that assist me with herding up my flocks and herds, bevies and gaggles--here in Pear-A-Dice).

About the only thing you can count on Latestarter...that Canadians all use the phrase EH (oft we are pausing to blow warmed up air on our frozen fingers...breath of "EH" warms them back up). I heard a good one the other day on how the Village got its name...we figured out the country's name by drawing letters from a bag; there was a "C" eh...an "N" eh...a "D" eh...and we stopped thar.


So I luv lotsa fun & games...so riddle fur yah's...I'll post the pic last here on this post...

What has eight horns, two heads, and eight legs??? ​

The Jacob Sheep is multi horned breed (primitive park sheep describes them to the letter) because like cattle, they have horns like a non-polled cow does but the Jacobs also have genetics that SPLIT the horn core into the multiple horns we are so often charmed with ... this gene/allele can get too carried away (ram Rex's twin sister Regina has six horns) and will actually split the skull, the eye socket and that be how my ram lamb (who is alive and well still being a wether & born in 2005...old man that one!) ended up with split eye...his eye lids were split and he could not use his split eye lid to properly wipe his eyes clean...rather ongoing painful condition which could have netted him with blindness besides ongoing pain that could be fixed up with surgery...oh my eye, eh! LMBO That or many would have called him "Mint" and served up his wretched carcass with sauce...I liked him, had the means and ways to operation...so we chose to keep him alive till he was older (intact six month old ram lamb who was old enough to be strong enough to survive the surgery)...if he had died on the operating table...that would be that...his sentence without surgery was an early death any hoo as roasted lamb chops or a painful blinded mess up (employing a full time seeing eye dog, perhaps eh?). So vet gave it a go and we all won on risking it, big timer for Rexxy boy.

Here he and the girls are enjoying grazing the ditch (fire prevention--extraordinaire) ... back in 2013. Half of my Jacbos are sheared (I'm not old, for a tree ...use to pre-wash my Jacobs before shearing...didyah all know that a wet sheep shakes off jest like dogs do...quite a sight when you release a drippy sheep...runs back to the flock Baaing, but stops to shake like a dawg) and the sans-fleeced grazers really DO appreciate the beach umbrellas--they don't end up sunburnt. Yeh...my neighbours don't quite know what to think of me and my ways, eh.

​

So back to Spice and her facial lump...first things first...she has no other external lumps other than this one lump (never had an abscess in a sheeps before Spices one--knock on wood this one is the last) AND I will not be testing for Caseous because all sheep here have been vaccinated for that condition plus this abscess is not located in the right place (concurred by my vet who has seen the photos I posted) to be that.

http://waddl.vetmed.wsu.edu/animal-disease-faq/caseous-lymphadenitis:

Caseous Lymphadenitis of Sheep and Goats
...

8. Is there a vaccine available?

There is a vaccine available for use in sheep, as well as a conditionally licensed C. pseudotuberculosis bacterin vaccine available for goats 3 months of age or older. Because this product is conditionally licensed, the vaccine is regulated by each state's veterinary agency. In Washington, the vaccine is currently only available to veterinarians. The sheep vaccine should not be used in goats. If a herd or flock is vaccinated, then serologic screening is no longer a useful method for detecting natural infection, and therefore it is generally recommended that vaccination only occur in herds of flocks in which CL is already present. Vaccinated herds may test positive on the blood test (serology).

'Kay...so no Caseous testing (would result in false positive) which BTW, here in Canuckville is ludicrously priced...an OPP test done where I delivered said sheep to the actual clinic for sampling...it cost me...wait fur it...$250 ten years ago. Now the EXACT same test in USA...was like eight dollars...yeh...we are held fur ransom here (over a virtual barrel of bile) with hilarious costing investigative testing...good gack, eh!


So in a nutshell from my conversation with my vet via telephone on Saturday...worst case scenario, this is lumpy jaw...ugly on a stick that be.

My best vet's method of treatment he explained with the concern if she was preggers (she is not), in a sheep she might abort!

I found this info and I quote... as to what he would do for Actinomycosis...two treatments a week apart, IV of idoined salt.

Here's more details for those curious about it all...basically you sterilize the area...makes total sense to me.

Overview of Actinomycosis

Members of the genus Actinomyces are gram-positive, anaerobic, non-acid-fast rods, many of which are filamentous or branching. Branches are <1 µm in diameter, as opposed to fungal filaments, which are >1 µm in diameter. Although they are normal flora of the oral and nasopharyngeal membranes, several species are associated with diseases in animals.

A bovis is the etiologic agent of lumpy jaw in cattle. It has also been isolated from nodular abscesses in the lungs of cattle and infrequently from infections in sheep, pigs, dogs, and other mammals, including chronic fistulous withers and chronic poll evil in horses. Lumpy jaw is a localized, chronic, progressive, granulomatous abscess that most frequently involves the mandible, the maxillae, or other bony tissues in the head. Disease is seen when A bovis is introduced to underlying soft tissue via penetrating wounds of the oral mucosa from wire or coarse hay or sticks. Involvement of adjacent bone frequently results in facial distortion, loose teeth (making chewing difficult), and dyspnea from swelling into the nasal cavity. Any part of the head can be affected; however, the alveoli around the roots of the cheek teeth are frequently involved. The primary lesion appears as a slow-growing, firm mass that is attached to or part of the mandible. Ulceration forms in some cases, with or without fistulous tracts, and drainage of purulent exudate may occur. Presumptive diagnosis is often based on clinical signs. The diagnosis can be confirmed by culture of the organism from the lesion; however, this requires anaerobic conditions and is frequently negative. A Gram stain of purulent material will reveal gram-positive, club-shaped rods and filaments (sulfur granules). Radiology of the head is also useful; the primary radiographic lesion consists of multiple, centrally radiolucent areas of osteomyelitis surrounded by periosteal new bone and fibrous tissue. As a last resort, a biopsy sample can be taken with a trephine and submitted for histopathology.

The goal of treatment is to kill the bacteria and stop the spread of the lesion. However, the hard mass will usually not regress significantly. Sodium iodide is the treatment of choice in ruminant actinomycosis. Sodium iodide (70 mg/kg of a 10%–20% solution, IV) is given once and repeated several times at 7- to 10-day intervals. If signs of iodine toxicity develop (eg, dandruff, diarrhea, anorexia, coughing, and excessive lacrimation), iodine administration should be discontinued or treatments given at longer intervals. Sodium iodide has been shown to be safe for use in pregnant cows and presents little risk of causing abortion. Concurrent administration of antimicrobials, including penicillin, florfenicol, or oxytetracycline, is recommended. Surgery to debride large mandibular lesions has also been described in conjunction with iodine and antimicrobial therapy. Because A bovis is part of the normal oral flora in ruminants, control focuses on avoiding coarse, stemmy feeds or feeds with plant awns that might damage the mucosal epithelium. When multiple cases are seen in a herd, it is not from the contagious nature of the pathogen but the widespread exposure to a risk factor (eg, coarse feed).

So not a huge concern since we do not feed stemmy feed and we don't have FOXTAIL grasses in lushy amounts on the property...mostly Sheep Fescue, Red Fescue, Kentucky Blue grass, Bromes, Clovers, some Timothy (which I hate because seed heads get messed up in the fleeces...agh), etc. ...but not alot of this nasty grass on our place...thankfully.

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Rota and Regis - Lilac Jacob Rams outta Melody (Canada's 1st Grand Champion Jacob ewe I showed)​

I do however reflect back to the time one of my rams stuck a stick (size and shape of a drinking straw) up his nose grazing (WHAT? I got to rake up all the pasture sticks now too--yard work never quite complete?). So like how is a ram with a cloven hoof gonna pull a stick outta his nose--all he can do is shove it deeper into his face...y'ouch? Never bin a fan of those who advocate the let them flocks fend for themselves management systems--drop off in the spring, pick up what's left in the fall. I got the sheep basically because they are the only creature that makes me pause (the "AH" factor), actually hold still and look kinda distractions...so I was admiring the view and thought..."Is that a BOOGER because I abhor boogers...does my ram have a booger in his snozz?" Nope, but he rammed a dang stick up his nose.

Regis Sans Stickins...​

Major groddy, pulled it out, covered in pus and some blood...off to the house, shot of antibiotics...regiment of yoghurt to put good bugs I kilt back in this ruminant... Yeh...didyah know that my ewe Haley use to meet me at the gate hoping against hope I had a spoon fulla strawberry flavoured yoghurt fur her...my first ewe birthing, triplettes and a tangle of legs...but all worth the sub-Q shot for the lip smacking (yup, she'd smack her lips for that) treaties. Such a smiling dear sheep!

Lilac Jacob ewe Haley - Outta the Winnipeg Zoo stocks​

Other scenario, vet had a few for me to digest...that this is an old injury...as a lamb Spice mighta got kicked or troddened on...or whatever and it is IN the process of healing up.

I got asked what the lump felt like and I used this contraption above (every shepherd should have this item--Gambrel restrainer (nfi)--in our tool kits...like a rubber foot protector and a head gate...makes life with sheeps so much more delish--manageable on the farm, eh). Bought it back in like 2003 or so, & cost was round about $18 for the restrainer. It is a blessing to the shepherdess and a curse to sheep that want not to be examined.

I have pulled back Spices' lower lip and no issues there...I like my fingers ON my hands, so not like I am going to stick my fingees in her mouth...good way to lose a digit...you can feel on the cheek sides for molar alignments but I'd not be suggesting one "stick finger in sheep face" unless you want a trimming...not a fun time...

Don't own a gag...read my Vet Book for Sheep Farmers...this is what a gag looks like...never had an abscess in a sheep till Spicer...may want one of these and not expensive at like $15 I see added on the Net. Not sure I want to own any more sheepy equipment tho...hee hee. I often have to replace expired vet meds because I have then on hand but years go by and never opened. Bin told some are still good but who wants to compromise a beast with using old meds, if and when you run into issues. Intervention is suppose to be helping not hindering.

I DO own this headgate (can't use this on Spice, would hurt her lump) and in the Ram barn...

So when we removed the 2x4's we used to shore up the walls of the Ram Barn (Rams like to ram things...gives them boosts of hormones for pleasure--go figure) only to find it worked to a point. But within every cloud is that silver lining...the hole can be altered and two 2x6's added so I can put the headgate up in the this barn too, not just at the Sheep Dip Inn (ewe barn). So that's a bonus I'll need to address.

Sheep Dip Inn and the Screw Ewe Saloon​

I did laugh as wasn't the metallic grilles all the rage for the hip hop crowds...sheeps beat them to this as per the Sheep Vet book, eh.

Never say never, eh...with enough money and ingenuity, miracles can be done...say cheese sheepies...

Vet's reply to is this condition being inheritable (like a badly formed mouth that caused the lump) he has to say WAY too many variables...if I breed her, I need to watch I choose a well mouthed ram (duh) and be prepared that it may or may not show up in the lambs. That being said...this is afterall a MEAT breed of sheep (DOR - Dorset Horned x PER - Persian Black Head/Swartkoppersie) and I suppose, I can eat the progeny if I choose to breed Spice and the results turn out less than favourable.


So my important job now is to watch Spice for any changes...for the lump to get better (or worse), for her to quit eating (she sure ain't doing that)...fur changes to the bad side.

No changes as of yet...but I will be watching...you betcha! My vet does not feel we should risk her life sedating her if this is a thing that still allows her to eat, be happy (she is still perky and alert) living her life. I know I got that "sheep death stinky eye look" when I used the neck & front leg restraint on her...released her and she HATED me that day but all is forgiven the next day. No mauling Spice willy nilly, eh.

The option of surgery, sedation sure can be done...BUT it had sure better be a life or death or quality of existence because she CAN die on the table...just from the sedation.

ANSWER to the RIDDLE...

Rex and his Momma Mia have two heads and eight horns/legs!!! ​

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

Edited because from my first post to my second post...furgot how to insert the direct link to the photo's location...agh...hard teaching old female dog new tricks...but eventually we get it..."Do I get my <<treat>> now?"

 

[Sheepshape]

Tara....you deserve a medal for the sheer length and complexity of your post !

Sounds as though Spice will be fine. Maybe it is just a mucous cyst.

Good Luck.