Do I just have a moody mare on my hands?

[patandchickens]

Maybe I am asking too much from her from HER perspective, but I have never worked this horse very hard at all. <snip>She has been a walk/trot only horse for over a year. I never even trot her for long and she always gets breaks and gets to stretch her neck and just stroll around the arena.

That could still be asking a lot from her perspective. a) if you are requiring her to *concentrate*, many horses find sustained mental effort like that to be fairly taxing and, as it accumulates, increasingly unpleasant. And/or b) maybe she would like to do MORE than just walk/trot, esp. if it is in the ring

Its just hard to believe that she's in such bad shape or in a great deal of pain, when everyday at four o'clock, if her gate into the barn area is closed, she will gallop the fence lines as fast as if she's on the racetrack, bucking and throwing a hissy fit for someone to open her gate!!

Yeah but nearly-three-legged-lame horses will do that TOO (Not saying she is lame; just saying, what they do when they are feeling silly is not a good indicator of physical state)

Plus which running around in the paddock need not have anything much to do with kinds of subtle discomfort that can be aggravated by weight, saddle, or the work you're doing. And subtle soreness -- tension, or something not aligned right -- often DOES cause the sort of unpredictable crankiness and dissatisfaction with sustained work that you describe.

So I really DO think it is worth looking into, if you are looking for a solution other than "accept it and live with it".

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[dianneS]

Well, we went for a ride tonight. Didn't do anything different from yesterday. She was completely fine, totally cooperative and didn't fuss at all tonight.

There was even a storm approaching and the wind was blowing and the other animals were going nuts around her, and she was perfect.

She was very willing and attentive and trying very hard. Never resisted me at all, like yesterday.

 

[dianneS]

I think my mare just needs to be worked more regularly and she needs to get into better condition.

I've been doing ground work with her every single day that I cannot ride and only riding (no groundwork) as much as I can, usually 3-4 days per week.

She's getting better and better and hasn't been cranky at all. I'm trying to find a conditioning program for her to get her into shape. I'm not working her very hard, just very frequently and gradually. I really think that is the only problem with her, just too little exercise.

I really need to work on her topline and her collection, that's where she needs the most conditioning.

 

[freemotion]

Sometimes a former racehorse or any race-bred horse needs to warm up in the canter. ALL horses, but especially the teenagers, need to walk a minimum of ten minutes to lubricate the joints and to warm up all the tissues. Less if you pull her out of a pasture on a hot day and tack up fairly quickly, as she would've been moving around, even if just loafing and grazing. You might try some large canter circles, or the entire arena, as your warm-up after a nice long walk.

BTW, muscle tension shows up best in the walk. Have someone walk her straight towards you and straight away from you in a very forward, marching walk. Get someone who won't block your view by walking in front of the horse! Look for any difference in movement between right and left sides. For example, from the front, look at the shoulders, knees, fetlocks, feet, the way she carries her head (if she leads well on a loose lead...doesn't count if the handler pulls her head towards him/her.)

From the rear, look at how high each side of her rump lifts and falls, and how even it is. Look at the movement in the stifles and the hocks, and generally, for any differences between right and left.

If on cement, listen for differences in sound of the foot falls, but only if you can differentiate the two rear hooves from the two front hooves by ear. Not everyone can.

If you see/hear imbalance, a GOOD massage therapist can help. A good massage therapist can also tell if the chiropractor is needed and will know who to call. And vice versa, but in my experience, the chiro's usually don't refer to the mt's. But we have some really bad mt's here in this area, so they may be a bit jaded.

If you are lucky enough to have someone nearby who does Meagher Method, you are golden!

 

[dianneS]

What if she stumbles? I've always assumed that my mare stumbled because of her blindness in her one eye, but now I'm thinking that may not have as much to do with it.

She is very one-sided because of her eye sight and her blind side is her "hard" side.

She stumbles whenever I work her on the longe or under saddle, but never when at liberty. Its almost always the back end when she stumbles, but has never shown any signs of lameness at all.

She also still throws her head way down when transitioning into a canter and she still sort of rushes into the canter, I think that's because she's out of shape, and she is getting better with that. She is improving with daily work, but she still stumbles?

 

[patandchickens]

Wait, so she is blind in one eye, very one-sided (but in the opposite direction to how one-eyed horses are *usually* stiff, IME), and stumbles behind when worked?

I would FOR SURE have a good massage or chiro person out, or if you happen to know a good "subtle lameness" vet that would work too (if be more expensive) but they are awful hard to find.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[dianneS]

Yes she is stiffer on the blind side, that is usually the opposite of most one eyed horses.

She rarely cranes her neck around to the blind side in order to see with the good eye. She only does that in unfamiliar territory. When she's familiar with her surroundings, she just positions herself to always look with her good eye so that she only has to turn her head slightly to the good side.

That's the way she is when I ride her too. Always bending to the left with the good eye. Very hard to get her to flex in the direction of her blind eye. Also hard to longe her in that direction too, she gets nervous when she can't see me and will stop and just turn around and want to go the other way.

We're working on it though and she's getting better.

 

[freemotion]

She definitely would benefit from some good bodywork. I would also definitely spend extra time warming her up gently. I'd up the walking to 20-30 minutes, freely, and doing figures and maybe gentle slopes. But mostly in the arena or on smooth surfaces that she trusts and will feel confident about moving forward freely. I forgot she was blind, too.

 

[dianneS]

Well, I'm working on identifying any pain issues with my mare. Vet can't see anything wrong, but that doesn't mean there isn't something going on.

I really do think a big part of her problem is lack of conditioning.
I've been doing groundwork every day with her and or riding. If I work with her on a regular basis, she has no attitude problem at all whatsoever. She's very eager to please.

When she arrived here, she was so wound up and high-strung from the new surroundings that I worked with her mostly on downward transitions on the longe, trying to calm and relax her. If I asked her to canter, she would fly around me like a crazy horse and even her trot was too fast. Cantering only seemed to fire her up even more.

I've been working on her canter on the longe and it still needs work. She still runs into it from the trot and she throws her head way up, then way down and leaps into the canter. We've been working on it for a couple of weeks and I attempted to canter her under saddle the other day. It was a complete disaster. It was the worst canter ever, I only got about three good canter strides out of her. She wanted to keep trying though, she really wanted to do what I was asking her, but we stopped for the day.

I think she just needs a lot more groundwork before she's ready to canter under saddle. I'm just not sure how to stop her from running into the canter and how to get her to stay nice and collected. If she chooses to canter, but its really crazy and fast, should I just let her go until she slows down on her own? Or should I immediately slow her down to a trot and start over? I've tried asking her to canter from a walk, she still trots a little, but its much better that way.

 

[patandchickens]

I've been working on her canter on the longe and it still needs work. She still runs into it from the trot and she throws her head way up, then way down and leaps into the canter.

Do I remember correctly that you said she was very stiff on one side, and crooked and stumbles on the longe and u/s?

I would bet you dollars to donuts that she is simply not straight/balanced/organized enough (on longe and u/s) to be able to do a proper canter depart.

Some horses are naturally good at putting themselves right for what they're asked to do, others largely depend on you to do it FOR them (see below); and some will just flat-out refuse to canter if they are not correctly configured for it, whereas others will try to do it anyways, any ole whichway, which often involves speeding up or running-trot or bucking.

It sounds to me like your mare is in the second category on both counts. She is not in the right position TO canter, but she is trying to do as she's asked anyhow, the best way she knows how (which isn't a very good way, but it's all she knows).

Bear in mind that IME there are three general categories for why a horse is not, at in the right balance/bend/position to take up a canter and may seem to "depend on you" to set him right: a) poor natural body use, which amounts basically to 'ignorance and poor instincts'; b) being actually *put* in the wrong position, unintentionally, by the rider or longeur; and c) having some physical issue(s) that make it uncomfortable or difficult for the horse to assume the right balance/bend/position for an organized canter depart. These three things are not mutually exclusive, of course, but it may be useful as a way of thinking about what you're seeing.

If she chooses to canter, but its really crazy and fast, should I just let her go until she slows down on her own? Or should I immediately slow her down to a trot and start over?

Don't try to slow her "immediately" -- you want to praise her and give her the idea that she did the RIGHT thing -- just let her canter on (try to stay quiet and uninterfering in the saddle) for maybe half the ring or so (it really depends on the particular horse) and *then* try to balance her back for a down transition, or circle her if necessary, or whatever works for you to get her back down to an organized trot or walk. Coming back down to the slower gait is not a correction though -- make sure she understands she is a GOOD girl for offering the canter -- it is just that you don't want to do unnecessarily much of the incorrect canter, you know? So you take what she offers, then go back and try again (after heavy reorganization occurs!)

I've tried asking her to canter from a walk, she still trots a little, but its much better that way.

Some horses do find it easier to organize themselves for canter from the walk. Also, perhaps as much to the point, some RIDERS find it easier I am pretty sure your problems are not all pilot error since she has the same trouble on the longe; but it is also really common IME for peoples' seats and aids and timing to be *inadvertantly* making it hard for the horse to take up a clean organized canter depart. Unfortunately most people learn to canter by being put on not-all-that-obedient lesson horses and told to just do 'whatever' to get 'em cantering. Rather than having the position and centeredness of the seat, and the timing of the aids, carefully taught from the beginning. With the result that in my experience as a (former) riding instructor, most peoples' canter depart aids SUCK MASSIVELY, although if a horse has been very well trained to some arbitrary cue it may not matter so much what all the rider is doing

So I would suggest this: DO try cantering from walk, since that is what works best for you. Be pleased and praiseful of whatever she offers you, although don't let horrible canters go on for too long and when you get a GOOD canter try to end it BEFORE it degenerates.

But when you are trying to do the transition, do not ask for the canter until you really feel she is THERE, she is READY, she is balanced and straight and her hindlegs are engaged and you can already FEEL in advance exactly how each leg will swing into the canter, almost like feeling the canter already present in the walk or trot. THEN AT THAT MOMENT ask for canter.

It is not uncommon for things to fall apart between the moment you think "ah, this is it, I should ask now!" and the moment your seat and legs actually do it. That's ok. Say Oh Pooh, reorganize, and try again. It is also not uncommon for you to turn out to have been mistaken about how ready she was for the canter depart. That is ok too, it's a learning experience

One thing that may be useful is to start at the end of one long side of the ring, walk a small serpentine loop in to the centerline and back out to the rail, and then as you would be changing bend just as you approach the rail, see if she feels organized enough and if so then ask for canter THEN. The shape of the figure encourages proper bend and balance and somewhat discourages running forward into the canter.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat