TAH
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Is there away that could be when people hold it on there head for to long? Cause I have heard of people holding pon to long.
Do You Disbud Your Kids?
- Thread starter Valais
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babsbag
Herd Master
I just read that link you posted and I dare say I completely disagree. I have 40 disbudded goats and they don't scratch their heads any more than they do there necks and their sides. I seldom see an adult goat scratch their head with a foot.
I have never had a kid run a fever after disbudding, I have never had brain damage, never had lethargy, and the baby goat starts screaming as soon as it is confined, not the minute it is touched by the iron. They hate to be "trapped".
Scurs can be a problem, but they can either be clipped as adults or reburned as kids, I have done both.
As far as the heat, it gets 110° here on a regular basis all summer long. My goats have shade, water, and damp dirt to lay in. I never seem them pant, horned or otherwise.
I have never had a kid run a fever after disbudding, I have never had brain damage, never had lethargy, and the baby goat starts screaming as soon as it is confined, not the minute it is touched by the iron. They hate to be "trapped".
Scurs can be a problem, but they can either be clipped as adults or reburned as kids, I have done both.
As far as the heat, it gets 110° here on a regular basis all summer long. My goats have shade, water, and damp dirt to lay in. I never seem them pant, horned or otherwise.
babsbag
Herd Master
Yes, kids have died from disbudding incorrectly. But I know of many many many people that disbud and I bet collectively there are 400-500 kids done a year just in my circle of friends and in 7 years I know of only one kid dying. He had been sedated before the procedure too and it could have been the sedation as much as the disbudding. Goats don't sedate well.
The first time a person fishes a dead goat stuck by their horns out of fence or feeder they might think again. Or the first time a goats rips open a herd mates udder or eye. Or the first time they themselves get skewered just by an innocent head toss. or the first time...
No horns on my goats unless they are Boers that will be shown or wethers destined for the freezer before the horns have a chance to mature. Boers don't seem to use their horns like weapons the way dairy goats do.
TAH
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Here is other website I found.
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/disbudding.html
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/disbudding.html
babsbag
Herd Master
If a person wants to show their goats in many fairs or any ADGA sanctioned shows they have to be hornless. Even Boer goats have to be hornless for the junior livestock auctions in my county, not sure about other places. Children showing goats may know how to handle them but seriously it only takes a toss of the head and the child standing next to them can be hurt. Those rules are there for a reason. If it was one goat and one child, maybe, but the ring is full of youth exhibitors and it is just too easy to get distracted.
If you have ever walked among a herd of 40 goats all clamoring for your attention or the feed you are carrying you will be very happy for no horns. It isn't that I don't know how to handle a goat, but I can't handle 40 of them at once. Grabbing a goat by a collar when they have horns can be painful when the goat tosses their head back and smashes your finger between their horns and their neck. I also have bruises on my knees just from the goats bumping and pushing me, thank goodness no horns.
If horns are all so darn important what about the goat that is polled? Are they a lesser goat, doomed to be at the bottom of the herd and die of heat? NO !!! My herd queen is polled and she does just fine. Goats can get pushy with each other and if the author of that last article thinks that the horns are a defense then doesn't it make sense that they could choose to use them as a "weapon" on each other as well?
@Southern by choice has a picture of her goat's horns that have been filed to a razor sharp tip, and the goat did the sharpening. They were nothing but dangerous for any man or beast. I can't imagine my LGD trying to avoid horns either; especially a puppy. Maybe we are smart enough to avoid them but is a dog? Or how about the kid (goat) that tries to sneak a snack from the doe that isn't their mom and then in turn gets butted away?
If a person chooses not to disbud that is certainly their choice, it just isn't one that I will make. Don't think that I am trying to "win the debate"; I just think that there a valid reasons for disbudding and that some of the excuses for not doing it are pretty lame.
If you have ever walked among a herd of 40 goats all clamoring for your attention or the feed you are carrying you will be very happy for no horns. It isn't that I don't know how to handle a goat, but I can't handle 40 of them at once. Grabbing a goat by a collar when they have horns can be painful when the goat tosses their head back and smashes your finger between their horns and their neck. I also have bruises on my knees just from the goats bumping and pushing me, thank goodness no horns.
If horns are all so darn important what about the goat that is polled? Are they a lesser goat, doomed to be at the bottom of the herd and die of heat? NO !!! My herd queen is polled and she does just fine. Goats can get pushy with each other and if the author of that last article thinks that the horns are a defense then doesn't it make sense that they could choose to use them as a "weapon" on each other as well?
@Southern by choice has a picture of her goat's horns that have been filed to a razor sharp tip, and the goat did the sharpening. They were nothing but dangerous for any man or beast. I can't imagine my LGD trying to avoid horns either; especially a puppy. Maybe we are smart enough to avoid them but is a dog? Or how about the kid (goat) that tries to sneak a snack from the doe that isn't their mom and then in turn gets butted away?
If a person chooses not to disbud that is certainly their choice, it just isn't one that I will make. Don't think that I am trying to "win the debate"; I just think that there a valid reasons for disbudding and that some of the excuses for not doing it are pretty lame.
samssimonsays
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I am with babs reasoning. The what if's are too many and too horrific to even risk. We will be getting our buckling done by someone experienced in my area who has been doing it for many years knowing he will be sold next year. Even the nicest and most well behaved goats can cause serious injury. ever milk and have a head come back just out of habit from the doe? YOUR eye could be gone in a heartbeat if that ever happened. And if selling goats, I want to make sure those getting them are safe as well as my own animals. I heard when I first started that if one goat is horned and the rest are not, it could be asking for trouble or injuries when plays for dominance occur. Some do just fine while others will wreak havoc on any and everything. To each their own but I wouldn't buy one with horns unless it were a boer. My safety, kids safety and our other animals safety is too valuable for me to gamble with it.
frustratedearthmother
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Perhaps if we don't wish to do an 'unnatural' disbudding procedure then we should do nothing else 'unnatural' to a goat? Maybe we shouldn't feed them? or give them vaccinations? or even treat them when they are ill?
We've taken goats out of their 'natural' habitat and in doing so we've taken on the responsibility to give them the best care that we can. I can't give my goats a thousand acres so that they can get away from the bully with the biggest horns - but I can take away the bully's weapon.
My goats don't have the freedom to roam anywhere they choose to pick the best browse possible, but I can try to give them the best diet possible.
Horns in a confined area are not only detrimental to pen/herd mates and handlers, they can be detrimental to the goat itself.
Just my opinion and my practice.
We've taken goats out of their 'natural' habitat and in doing so we've taken on the responsibility to give them the best care that we can. I can't give my goats a thousand acres so that they can get away from the bully with the biggest horns - but I can take away the bully's weapon.
My goats don't have the freedom to roam anywhere they choose to pick the best browse possible, but I can try to give them the best diet possible.
Horns in a confined area are not only detrimental to pen/herd mates and handlers, they can be detrimental to the goat itself.
Just my opinion and my practice.
TAH
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I totally understand all your reasons. This is just how I feel about it. This thread is for you to put how you fell about it. And like I said I would be happy to have someone dis-bud my goat if it needs it. But I have had no issue so far. My Nubian wether has horns and will be 2 this year and has never hurt anyone and he has little kids ride him. Now I would never trust a billy with horns. I don't even trust him without horns.
. I don't even trust him without horns.
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maritown
Overrun with beasties
I agree that it's 100% a personal choice and with so many people in different situations with different horror stories you are bound to hear some strong opinions on both sides of the fence. That being said, I find a lot of these pro disbudding arguments to come across a little "you need to take them off or your goat will hurt you and every animal you have". Well, yes...but so will many livestock as they are large and react differently than people to scary situations.
That being said, I've worked on a large scale dairy that disbudded and I see why. They ran large herds and didn't have time to check on goats every hour. They switched goats around often and had kids and unexperienced people around for tours frequently. They sold a lot of babies. For their size, needs, and local market disbudding was the right choice.
For me, I don't disbud. I have a small herd and work on the farm full time so I am always around. The horns make them very easy to handle while trimming, giving medications etc. My girls lived in a horned herd and are also very spatically aware. That being said, I don't put my face near their horns. This isn't a down side for me and I look at it the same as not walking behind a horse. I also don't have children handling my goats so it is not a concern, and I don't breed to sell babies.
I have not noticed disbudded vs horned goats acting any differently. I have one disbudded buck and a polled buck, two horned does. They all are equally happy and as I have a pasture filled with stumps and trees my goats don't touch the fencing. Do whats right for your situation and future plans
That being said, I've worked on a large scale dairy that disbudded and I see why. They ran large herds and didn't have time to check on goats every hour. They switched goats around often and had kids and unexperienced people around for tours frequently. They sold a lot of babies. For their size, needs, and local market disbudding was the right choice.
For me, I don't disbud. I have a small herd and work on the farm full time so I am always around. The horns make them very easy to handle while trimming, giving medications etc. My girls lived in a horned herd and are also very spatically aware. That being said, I don't put my face near their horns. This isn't a down side for me and I look at it the same as not walking behind a horse. I also don't have children handling my goats so it is not a concern, and I don't breed to sell babies.
I have not noticed disbudded vs horned goats acting any differently. I have one disbudded buck and a polled buck, two horned does. They all are equally happy and as I have a pasture filled with stumps and trees my goats don't touch the fencing. Do whats right for your situation and future plans
OneFineAcre
Herd Master
I always read about there being "strong opinions" on both sides.
I don't have a strong opinion about what someone else chooses to do or not do with their animals.
I also don't have a need to convince them that what they are doing is wrong and what I'm doing is right.
If you don't want to disbud your goats and you want them to have horns, well I say go for it. You don't have to explain why.
If you want to disbud your goats, it's your right to do so. You don't have to explain.
In this article, there are "facts" that are just plain made up : I wouldn't take anything they said about anything very seriously.
But again, I really don't care what their opinion is.
http://ourmountainhearth.com/why-we-dont-dehorn-our-goats/
I don't have a strong opinion about what someone else chooses to do or not do with their animals.
I also don't have a need to convince them that what they are doing is wrong and what I'm doing is right.
If you don't want to disbud your goats and you want them to have horns, well I say go for it. You don't have to explain why.
If you want to disbud your goats, it's your right to do so. You don't have to explain.
In this article, there are "facts" that are just plain made up : I wouldn't take anything they said about anything very seriously.
But again, I really don't care what their opinion is.
http://ourmountainhearth.com/why-we-dont-dehorn-our-goats/
