Kid of funny to see this topic again. We just went to look at a young horse who had photos posted with
her driving in a large cart, being ridden in a group. Guy seem quite straight forward about everything,
said she had been with various folks, a trainer, learning to do things driven and ridden. However horse
was not used that way for long periods of time or consistantly since then.
He had a young Amish man who would be the rider and driver for the horse, since the man himself has
had recent back surgery and was having trouble even getting about.
Horse was a bit nervous with all 4 of us in her barn aisle to do grooming and saddling. She was good, just
"looky" to keep track of what we were doing. Never offered any resistance or bad behaviour, but her
eyes were WIDE open watching.
First demo was riding. She stood well to be mounted, but did not have a CLUE what the reins meant.
Rider had to really put his arm out to lead her around bends and corners. Very slippery ground didn't
help, so we went out to the larger field. She was a bit smoother in larger circles, but didn't understand
any give to the bit for bending around in large circles, needed quite a bit of encouragement to keep going
at the walk and trot. Wanted to go back to the barn, even with the gate closed.
The to the Driving part. The guy had no harness fitted to her, so we had to make a lot of adjustments in
getting the parts fitted on her. Then he pulled out a light, 4-wheeled wagon with STEEL tires. Husband
asked him about using that, was told that he had never hitched her to it before but she should be fine with
it on the road in front of the farm. Just go up and down to try her gaits.
Husband and the Amish guy did the hitching, modifying to fit the wagon, while I headed her. Horse was again
REALLY LOOKY but kindly stood quietly. Amish guy hopped in the wagon and asked her to go. It was pretty
slow and awkward going. Much hesitation, couple steps, halt, look around. Ask again, some more forward,
head bent but not body for a turn. Lots of ear movement with the SQUEAKY tires on stone, pretty noisy. Husband
went up by her head and straightened her out on the road, but no forward. They tried encouraging her
with voice, some leading steps, but she didn't want to go. Husband led her to the field, thought soft dirt might
help with no stone noise, but not much improvement. She had no clue how to follow the rein, just bent her head.
When encouraged a bit more strongly, she backed, jack-knifing the wagon, which then tried to tip. Husband
grabbed her head to pull forward while the Amish guy jumped clear of the wagon.
Husband said she was being overfaced, time to stop. Trying to MAKE her do anything more was going to turn things
into a bad situation when she finally gave up on US. We unhitched her and husband then drove her from the ground,
seeing how she responded to new ways of being "ASKED" to go in circles, bending neck AND body. Then we stripped
off the harness, put her away. The owner still had no clue of the problem. She had DRIVEN BEFORE, did fine, ridden
before, no issues. The Amish guy was nice, but had never heard "overfaced" term before. Once I explained it, he
was in agreement about the horse.
Not trying to "talk down" to the owner about what we were seeing. He is a long-time draft horse owner and user, so
not a raw beginner in training young horses. We explained that "in OUR experience" the young horse needs to be used
for quite a while in the basic equipment, get familiar with the cart (which can't bend or fold like a 4-wheeler. Learn how the
cart feels when pulled uphill and down, on rough ground with jerks and twists over holes and bumps, various types of
ground surfaces like sand, rocks, pavement. She has to have this as a single horse, no partner to MAKE her go along,
which is fairly common in Draft circles. And even though this horse has been ridden and driven, she had no TIME being
used to give her any depth to the training. Driving in a ring, just keeping her on the fence may not get any steering
developed. Firm surface makes pulling the light cart easy, and rubber tires that makes no noise on most surfaces. She
is young, has to learn to be brave in pulling weight, holding weight back on downhills. Needs to be a lot smoother in
following the reins, so she can do turns easily, circles to learn bending her body, not just her neck.
She was a big "maybe she will work" for us, photos were mostly terrible in the advertising. Our hearts were not committed!!
But worth the POSSIBILITY that she would match enough to work out for us, to make the long trip to see her. First look
in real life was that she was almost a dead-ringer for the gelding we lost last year! Same shape head, short neck, bulky
body, just redder. Of course with more looking, she was NOT him, but sure made her appealing!!
We chose not to purchase, but offered some ideas the owner may want to try. He has the Amish man and his brothers to
use for local training, get her going better. The Amish guy did not seem to be the kind to force work on a confused horse.
But he also saw the holes in her, no skills in riding or Driving. Hope they give her some more training time to learn her jobs,
gain the confidence she needs to be a happy worker in a cart, wagon or under saddle. She has the POTENTIAL, to be a really
nice driving horse, and probably ride nice too, but that won't happen in 30 days or by forcing her to do stuff now.
She really didn't match our other horses, who we want to partner with, legs too short, stride was seemingly too short as well.
Wouldn't be able to keep up. Husband said she needed at least another year of REGULAR work, starting at scratch, to have
her ready to go with our horses. He didn't want to put in that time, when she already didn't match well.
She sure was overfaced with all the owner thought she knew. Sometimes just changes in equipment, like using the wagon
instead of a cart, probably scared her. Going to 4-wheels in Driving is a bit step, more weight to pull, have to be SOLID in
steering and commands. She wasn't any of those things. She tried backing away from the weight she was
pulling because it was too heavy, didn't know how to follow the reins for wide, easy turns to not bind up the front wheels on
the wagon. Glad we stopped when we did, did nothing to make her bad for more work. Left her on a good note, with her
working pretty well out on long lines. Husband explained what we were seeing in horse reactions. She was not quitting, not
being stubborn or disobedient. She just did not understand what we were asking, despite her training times at other places.
She needs more consistant work,as often as possible, to get the confidence installed that she CAN do what is being asked of her.
her driving in a large cart, being ridden in a group. Guy seem quite straight forward about everything,
said she had been with various folks, a trainer, learning to do things driven and ridden. However horse
was not used that way for long periods of time or consistantly since then.
He had a young Amish man who would be the rider and driver for the horse, since the man himself has
had recent back surgery and was having trouble even getting about.
Horse was a bit nervous with all 4 of us in her barn aisle to do grooming and saddling. She was good, just
"looky" to keep track of what we were doing. Never offered any resistance or bad behaviour, but her
eyes were WIDE open watching.
First demo was riding. She stood well to be mounted, but did not have a CLUE what the reins meant.
Rider had to really put his arm out to lead her around bends and corners. Very slippery ground didn't
help, so we went out to the larger field. She was a bit smoother in larger circles, but didn't understand
any give to the bit for bending around in large circles, needed quite a bit of encouragement to keep going
at the walk and trot. Wanted to go back to the barn, even with the gate closed.
The to the Driving part. The guy had no harness fitted to her, so we had to make a lot of adjustments in
getting the parts fitted on her. Then he pulled out a light, 4-wheeled wagon with STEEL tires. Husband
asked him about using that, was told that he had never hitched her to it before but she should be fine with
it on the road in front of the farm. Just go up and down to try her gaits.
Husband and the Amish guy did the hitching, modifying to fit the wagon, while I headed her. Horse was again
REALLY LOOKY but kindly stood quietly. Amish guy hopped in the wagon and asked her to go. It was pretty
slow and awkward going. Much hesitation, couple steps, halt, look around. Ask again, some more forward,
head bent but not body for a turn. Lots of ear movement with the SQUEAKY tires on stone, pretty noisy. Husband
went up by her head and straightened her out on the road, but no forward. They tried encouraging her
with voice, some leading steps, but she didn't want to go. Husband led her to the field, thought soft dirt might
help with no stone noise, but not much improvement. She had no clue how to follow the rein, just bent her head.
When encouraged a bit more strongly, she backed, jack-knifing the wagon, which then tried to tip. Husband
grabbed her head to pull forward while the Amish guy jumped clear of the wagon.
Husband said she was being overfaced, time to stop. Trying to MAKE her do anything more was going to turn things
into a bad situation when she finally gave up on US. We unhitched her and husband then drove her from the ground,
seeing how she responded to new ways of being "ASKED" to go in circles, bending neck AND body. Then we stripped
off the harness, put her away. The owner still had no clue of the problem. She had DRIVEN BEFORE, did fine, ridden
before, no issues. The Amish guy was nice, but had never heard "overfaced" term before. Once I explained it, he
was in agreement about the horse.
Not trying to "talk down" to the owner about what we were seeing. He is a long-time draft horse owner and user, so
not a raw beginner in training young horses. We explained that "in OUR experience" the young horse needs to be used
for quite a while in the basic equipment, get familiar with the cart (which can't bend or fold like a 4-wheeler. Learn how the
cart feels when pulled uphill and down, on rough ground with jerks and twists over holes and bumps, various types of
ground surfaces like sand, rocks, pavement. She has to have this as a single horse, no partner to MAKE her go along,
which is fairly common in Draft circles. And even though this horse has been ridden and driven, she had no TIME being
used to give her any depth to the training. Driving in a ring, just keeping her on the fence may not get any steering
developed. Firm surface makes pulling the light cart easy, and rubber tires that makes no noise on most surfaces. She
is young, has to learn to be brave in pulling weight, holding weight back on downhills. Needs to be a lot smoother in
following the reins, so she can do turns easily, circles to learn bending her body, not just her neck.
She was a big "maybe she will work" for us, photos were mostly terrible in the advertising. Our hearts were not committed!!
But worth the POSSIBILITY that she would match enough to work out for us, to make the long trip to see her. First look
in real life was that she was almost a dead-ringer for the gelding we lost last year! Same shape head, short neck, bulky
body, just redder. Of course with more looking, she was NOT him, but sure made her appealing!!
We chose not to purchase, but offered some ideas the owner may want to try. He has the Amish man and his brothers to
use for local training, get her going better. The Amish guy did not seem to be the kind to force work on a confused horse.
But he also saw the holes in her, no skills in riding or Driving. Hope they give her some more training time to learn her jobs,
gain the confidence she needs to be a happy worker in a cart, wagon or under saddle. She has the POTENTIAL, to be a really
nice driving horse, and probably ride nice too, but that won't happen in 30 days or by forcing her to do stuff now.
She really didn't match our other horses, who we want to partner with, legs too short, stride was seemingly too short as well.
Wouldn't be able to keep up. Husband said she needed at least another year of REGULAR work, starting at scratch, to have
her ready to go with our horses. He didn't want to put in that time, when she already didn't match well.
She sure was overfaced with all the owner thought she knew. Sometimes just changes in equipment, like using the wagon
instead of a cart, probably scared her. Going to 4-wheels in Driving is a bit step, more weight to pull, have to be SOLID in
steering and commands. She wasn't any of those things. She tried backing away from the weight she was
pulling because it was too heavy, didn't know how to follow the reins for wide, easy turns to not bind up the front wheels on
the wagon. Glad we stopped when we did, did nothing to make her bad for more work. Left her on a good note, with her
working pretty well out on long lines. Husband explained what we were seeing in horse reactions. She was not quitting, not
being stubborn or disobedient. She just did not understand what we were asking, despite her training times at other places.
She needs more consistant work,as often as possible, to get the confidence installed that she CAN do what is being asked of her.
