DOE TESTED POSITIVE....NOW WHAT?

[Southern by choice]

Hope you update when you get all the results.
It is heavy when you first look at it but given some time and results you'll be able to make the best decision for YOU. Ultimately that is what matters. Sometimes emotions can get in the way and later you look back and say geesh I wish I would have done this or that.

 

[babsbag]

Everything that Southern said is great advice; she is right on. I have 2 CL+ does, have owned them for 5 years, they have never had an abscess and their titers are 16 and 32... this time. The titers do change.

UC Davis used to say that anything over 8 was considered positive but it seems that they have changed their mind. They have a special ruminant newsletter where they now say that 128 can still be negative; or maybe positive.

http://www.cahfs.ucdavis.edu/local-...S_Connection_Small_Ruminant_edition_final.pdf

All of the kids that my does have had test negative year after year; as do my bucks. I don't worry about the does infecting the other goats in my herd as long as the titers stay low and the abscesses never appear.

Take your time, and breathe and you will make the right decision.

 

[Southern by choice]

Glad you posted Babs! I missed that newsletter!

The thing that concerns me the most is the issues with the testing. When I talked with Vet who did the testing (forgot the name) she said that just because there are no lumps doesn't mean they don't have cl and that it isn't internal. The sheep study showed 3% internal CL- no outside lumps with titers of 16. Kinda disturbing.

My farming partner bought a goat once that while in quarantine developed a lump.. it tested positive for CL. The breeder was shocked and told him he could bring the goat back. It was a mystery to her.... long story short she had another goat show up with a lump. These 2 goats were the only goats to ever go off her property, they were shown.... that is the only explanation she could think of... she had a CL negative herd.

IMO it is a very difficult thing to look at and make decisions about if you do test positive.
@babsbag would testing every year to see if it is spreading or titers going up be advantageous? If more goats start testing positive or titers going up maybe then take more "drastic" action? I know CL is very common in the meatgoat world, but considering the suspicion of it affecting humans is it wise to utilize the milk from such an animal? In the meatgoat/sheep world if internal lesions the carcass is condemned.

People here generally test for CAE, but now more and more are testing for Johnes. It is hit or miss with those testing for CL in addition. I think one reason it is more expensive than the other tests as it has to go to UC Davis so many just don't test unless they see a lump. No lumps - no testing. Here in NC Rollins Lab charges $1.50 each for CAE and Johnes... but the CL is $14.50 each because we are out of state... not bad for a small herd but that can add up if you have a lot of goats and are testing every year.

I will be honest... since we are a "clean" herd I will not buy any goat that has not been tested. Mostly because I don't think there is enough info on it's infectious nature. How did those 2 goats that were shown get it? It just makes me wonder.

 

[babsbag]

It really does make me wonder where those two goats got CL. Supposedly it is only spread by direct contact to the puss, but let's say a goat has CL in its lungs...could it pass it by sneezing or coughing? Could a goat conceivably pass it by saliva? In the show world vet checks are done, but only for visible signs, no one seems to worry about CL being internal.

My two goats were bought before I ever even heard of CL. I tested because a doe and my wether both presented a small lump under the ear, the vet was sure it was CL. It wasn't; the lump went away without ever becoming an abscess. That doe tested <8 but her two sisters are the ones that tested 8 and 16 at the time; now 16 and 32. But the one that was 16 is still 16, and at testing year two the one that is 16 had gone down to 8 and now back up to 16. I give up. Who knows if they really have CL or not?

They say that testing every year can give you an overall picture of the state of the disease, but it has been my experience that the titers fluctuate. Also testing while the doe is bred can give higher titers as their immune system is depressed during pregnancy.

If I ever get to do the raw milk dairy I will not milk any goats that are >8. End of story, but for now as long as the titers stay below 128 and no abscess I won't sweat it.

Also, if you ever vaccinate you will get a + titer, but I have been told that it should go down every year...IDK, I don't vaccinate. A lot of my meat goat friends do and then you never know what you are truly buying. I am very careful where my meat goats come from, and I do test them no matter what the breeder says.

While it can be an annoying disease they are worse...IMO. You just need to use some common sense to be safe around it in case it is zoonotic; again, JMHO.

 

[Southern by choice]

It really does make me wonder where those two goats got CL. Supposedly it is only spread by direct contact to the puss, but let's say a goat has CL in its lungs...could it pass it by sneezing or coughing? Could a goat conceivably pass it by saliva? In the show world vet checks are done, but only for visible signs, no one seems to worry about CL being internal.

That is what the vet was saying at UC Davis.... I don't think anyone really knows.

Great post BTW @babsbag ... very interesting to see how the titers have changed.

You are right on with the pregnancy thing too! It affects Johnes outcome as well. I was told to wait 6 weeks after kidding to do a Johnes test. Not sure how it affects CAE though.

 

[cindyg]

This is such a great site. I am not feeling so bad as I was. I've just found out from the farm where I got her that this doe was indeed vaccinated for Cl, also, she is pregnant! So, the titer of 32 isn't horrific in this situation I think. I am having the rest of the herd tested. It costs $9 per test, so it won't break the bank. The $50 call out fee and the time to draw blood from 8 more goats then the shipping fee of $30 makes it add up though. Worth it to know. Will continue posting as I learn more. Also, has anyone read about autogeneous vaccination? Where pus is harvested and then a vaccine made specifically for that goat or herd? Of course, you need active abcess to harvest from, which we don't have but it was an interesting idea, and makes sense to me.

 

[cindyg]

The autogeneous vaccine is then used as a treatment, not a preventative or a cure. Supposedly then builds antibodies to the particular strain of the virus.

 

[Southern by choice]

So glad you found that out! Would have been nice to know beforehand though. That is a real game changer though. Glad you are still having the others tested!

I have heard of the other but know nothing about it.

 

[babsbag]

That is certainly good news, I would guess that your doe does not have CL, but now how do you know. That is the frustrating thing about the vaccine.

I have heard of the autogenous vaccine and talked with my vet about getting one done if my does ever had an abscess; she had it done for her herd at one point.

 

[cindyg]

I will see what the whole herd testing tells us, then go from there. With no abcesses I can't do the autogenous vaccine but that's a good thing, I think. I sure appreciate your input, nice to hear a first hand experience.