Doe went off feed and milk production down by 1/3....possible UTI?

[BlackSheepOrganics]

Okay, my vet has diagnosed me as being "nuts", but she is willing to go along with it if I can come up with a plan. We don't have goat vets out here but our vets work with me if I can figure out what I think is going on if they don't know.

I pinched her upper eyelid and it does delay, so we've measured her water to know exactly how much she is actually drinking. Any thoughts on how much is sufficient and how little is too little in what time span? Thank you SOOO much for suggesting that as I should have thought to do that to begin with.

We wormed the goats a week ago, due to findings on the fecals. We do not typically worm as we don't usually have an issue but we did this time so we treated the ones that came up with fecals indicating the need. We used Cydectin oral drench.

Here is my plan of attack. Please feel free to tell me what you think and if I'm possibly missing something.

CMPK @ 30cc orally, twice a day
Calcium Gluconate @ 50cc SQ, split into 5 doses of 10cc at each site, twice a day.
Making sure water is being drank plentifully.
Probios just in case.
Nuflor (in case of pneumonia or UTI) I hate hate hate to have to do this but I am not chancing it with silent pneumonia or a UTI.

Am I doing overkill? Or should I be adding anything else? You guys are a lifeline and I know my thanks isn't much but THANK YOU SO MUCH!!

 

[BlackSheepOrganics]

Odd thing she just started...

When she is standing up, she is leaning her hind end (hiney and back of legs) against things as though she is trying to brace herself on them like a seat. She is not scratching; just leaning / bracing in that fashion.

I checked her for any soreness in the hindquarters or hooves. Nothing that I can tell or see.

We have dosed her with the previous things mentioned. I am headed for the city to pick up a few things for her but my family will be keeping an eye on the board for anything further in case I need to pick something else up. It's an hour drive to the nearest small city so I'd hate to get all the way back home to find out there was something else I should have thought about.

Again, thank you guys. I quit panicking somewhat when I start seeing replies from those of you who seem to know so much about goats. I truly appreciate you and your time.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I would redo the fecal test to make sure the dosage of cydectin you gave worked. You said you gave her Cydectin Oral Drench, I have heard a couple people around here comment that it doesn't work as well as Cydectin cattle Pour-on.

And what about some baking soda? Couldn't hurt, simple to do and cheap.

I know the key to dealing with any kind of ketosis is flushing out their system with lots of water, so when you are drenching her I would consider adding water to the drench, unless someone thinks you should do this seperate from the oral CMPK.

 

[20kidsonhill]

This is from some of my saved notes on a weak doe that is either pregant or nursing.

______________________

First and foremost, make very sure you have at least one bottle of calcium gluconate before kidding season starts. That way, if a pregnant doe can't rise tonight but was doing okay this morning, or is just becoming progressively weak and wobbly, you will be prepared.
At the first sign of weakness and I don't mean the next day, I mean NOW, get a syringe with an 18-gauge needle, have someone hold her head or tie it to something substantial, and give her five shots of 10 cc's of calcium solution. This is how you do it: Tent a spot of her hide a few inches down from her topline. Gently slide the needle in sideways, horizontal to her body, so you can deposit the calcium under her hide, but not in the muscle. Choose another spot and repeat the procedure. Do this five times, so she will get 50 cc's. She's not going to like you very much, but it is not really very painful. Put alcohol on the bottle top between each extraction of solution. I use the same needle, but put it in alcohol between shots.
If she had just begun to weaken, she will probably be strong and steady within an hour, but it doesn't matter; do it again. Give her another full 50 cc's in new spots, even if she is so strong that she tries to slap you silly, because she still needs more calcium, although her body will have absorbed the amount you put in her an hour ago. From here on it is straight uphill, and she will let you know that she doesn't like you or your treatments, but give her another one in a few hours, anyway. Then do it again the next day, about three times.
If she has stabilized and is eating well, just watch her closely. Another treatment may be necessary, and it won't hurt her, but you have to watch her and use your own judgement. Watch her closely for several days, just in case. You know your own stock - be alert.

 

[BlackSheepOrganics]

Thank you! I've got those same notes so that is comforting.

I'm off to the city.

 

[ksalvagno]

I know people may think I'm crazy but I have dealt with meningeal worm and I don't want to have to deal with it again. For me it has been alpacas but if I see it in my goats, I will do the same. When I see an animal with a weak back end for no good reason, I treat for meningeal worm. I do 5 days of Safeguard dosed at 1cc per 7 lbs. I'm not sure if Cydectin is considered the same as Ivomec but I would also give a shot of Ivomec too.

Only a spinal tap can verify meningeal worm so I just take a chance on it and figure if they don't have it, then I have wormed them really really good. The few times I have done this, I don't worry about resistance as it has been rare over the years that I have seen weak back ends. But when a friend of mine lost a pregnant alpaca to meningeal worm because the vet didn't think about it and it could have been caught very early on, it just makes sense to me to go ahead and treat for it.

Now maybe someone else with more goat experience can say that it is ketosis or something, I don't know. But I thought I would throw meningeal worm out there.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I know people may think I'm crazy but I have dealt with meningeal worm and I don't want to have to deal with it again. For me it has been alpacas but if I see it in my goats, I will do the same. When I see an animal with a weak back end for no good reason, I treat for meningeal worm. I do 5 days of Safeguard dosed at 1cc per 7 lbs. I'm not sure if Cydectin is considered the same as Ivomec but I would also give a shot of Ivomec too.

Only a spinal tap can verify meningeal worm so I just take a chance on it and figure if they don't have it, then I have wormed them really really good. The few times I have done this, I don't worry about resistance as it has been rare over the years that I have seen weak back ends. But when a friend of mine lost a pregnant alpaca to meningeal worm because the vet didn't think about it and it could have been caught very early on, it just makes sense to me to go ahead and treat for it.

Now maybe someone else with more goat experience can say that it is ketosis or something, I don't know. But I thought I would throw meningeal worm out there.

I would say if they don't see improvement in 12 t o24 hours from the calcium treatment to consider a heavy worm load a good possibility, and your recommendation of worming would be a good back up plan.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Not to negate Karen's advice, but I have seen goats lean like that when they aren't feeling well. But meningeal worm is scary, so I'd probably be cautious about that myself.

 

[BlackSheepOrganics]

Okay, we are seeing marked improvement already. That is a lot sooner than I had anticipated. She is up and moving around again. She acts like we are trying to kill her no matter what we are giving her.

I went to the city to try and find more CMPK because I thought this might be a long, drawn out thing. No one has CMPK and our vet is on her last bottle with it on backorder. Everyone around here is saying the same thing....that it is on backorder. So I found some CMPK gel. I've never used this gel before. I've only used the liquid. I'm being told to use the same dose - 30cc's.

I also found something called Calcium Drench by BOMAC Vets Plus, Inc. It is specifically for goats. Anyone ever use it? I picked it up, just in case but no clue if I'll actually use it or not unless someone here thinks it is better for her somehow or another.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I think the Calcium Gluconate will pretty much bring her around. We used a calcium/sucrose product recommended for IV, but also had the instructions on it for sub-Q for sheep. It worked just fine in less than 12 hours. We just kept using it until the entire bottle was gone. Our vet doesn't carry CMPK and we didn't have time to order it.


With the antibiotics I would just keep up the probiotics, don't need another problem.

I asked my husband about low calcium/milk fever and how likely it was to have a relapse and he said it was amazing how quickly the animal recovered from an IV treatment and they didn't have to go back and retreat. So I would just keep a close eye on her after you use up all the Calcium.

So glad to hear she is doing better.