doe with dirreaha (sp)

[treeclimber233]

The pasture is not new to them. However since it has been so dry the clover seems to be wilting a bit. Would that hurt them? Would cocci cause a temperature in the goats? I could not get a temp on the one that died because she fought everything I tried to do to her except milking. After she died I took her temp and it was 103. Now another one has dirreaha and I took her temp. It is even higher. I have called a vet and waiting for him to call back. I guess it is not something they ate. I don't know what they may have since I have not introduced any new goats for 8-9 months. And he came from a clean herd.

 

[carolinagirl]

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=127368

according to this link (and others) wilted clover can be toxic. Fresh or dried is fine, but toxic when wilted. I wonder if that could have done it?

 

[treeclimber233]

The clover in that article was red clover. The clover in their field has white blossoms. Wonder if that makes a difference. But that would explain why only the does are affected. The babies are not allowed out with the does and the buck hasent been in that field either. I hope it is not the clover. It is knee deep in their field.

 

[carolinagirl]

according to other links I found, white clover can be toxic when wilted too. But you're right....if the other goats didn't get it, it's unlikely. I hope your vet figured it out FAST and you don't lose anymore.

 

[20kidsonhill]

Just wondering, but have these goats ever been vaccinated? If not, they could have one of the strains of overeating disease, from being on all that fresh green pasture.

My guess is still a heavy worm load. If I can't keep the worm load down in the spring and the goats keep breaking I dry lot them for a while. When I get the scours cleaned up we try again with the pasture.

It is hot there, they may run a tempurature just because there system can't regulate itself. Or could be bacterial scours.

It is all guessing until a vet looks at them, runs a fecal, ect...... possibly an autopsy on the dead one.

Sorry it is not going well for you.

 

[treeclimber233]

Well I got a vet here (finally). He said the doe that is starting with dirreaha has a bacterial something. He took her temp and it was 105. He said it might be because it was so hot but I told him when I took her temp earlier (before it got hot) it was 105. He gave her 4 shots--one for fever reducer, one was antibiotic, the other two I am not sure. (I was stressed and forgot) He left me with meds to inject for 4 days. There is enough to inject anyone else that starts to run a fever. I am going to be checking everyone for fever for a while. I forgot to ask him where to inject her. I was at the barn a while ago and she did eat a couple mouthfuls of hay so maybe there is hope for her. He also took a stool sample with him and is going to call me tomorrow with the results. Hope tomorrow is a better day. We took the two that died today to the landfill (to remove all germs possible from my other goats)and the lady that let us in said there are 11 goats scheduled to arrive tomorrow. 11 goats. I don't know if they are all from the same farm or not but there must be something going around here. I am not sure how bacterial whatever is passed but I have not been around any other goats for a long time and have not visited any farms that have animals of any kind. Could I have brought something home from a feed store?

 

[Roll farms]

Have they been vaccinated?

There are a million things that can kill a goat....enterotoxemia being one.

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/enterotoxemia/enterotoxemia2.shtml

"Enterotoxemia is one of the very important diseases and in some areas it is the most prevalent disease of goats. Despite the fact that it is also called ''Overeating Disease'' it is not caused by overeating. Actually, the cause (etiology) of the disease is the toxin (poison) produced by the bacterium Clostridium perfringens type C or type D.

The bacteria are normally present in the soil and the intestinal tract in relatively small numbers. Under certain conditions the organisms proliferate (reproduce billions of their own kind) in the intestine and produce toxin in lethal quantities. These conditions are those which (1) provide an ideal environment and food for bacterial proliferation and (2) slow down the normal movement of material through the intestinal tract; they are often satisfied by ingesting large amounts of starch when the intestinal tract is not accustomed to it. The disease is often associated with lush fast growing pasture or cereal crops, heavy grain feeding or access to a lot of milk. Illnesses which slow down the intestinal tract, may predispose to the accumulation of dangerous quantities of the toxin.


The Acute course of disease lasts 4-26 hours and usually ends in death. Initially the temperature may go to 105F with severe abdominal pain (the kid cries so loudly it is best described as screaming). Profuse slimy or water diarrhea will occur. Depression, wobbly gait, recumbancy (lying down on side often with head down) occur early. Convulsions often occur intermittently and may be accompanied by continuous or intermittent opisthotonos (head thrown straight over back). The animal may slip into a coma before death or die groaning or even crying. These signs occur in kids but can occur in adult milking goats from either Type C or D bacteria."

Even if they have been vaccinated, that doesn't 100% guarantee protection. Some producers vaccinate 2x a year to increase protection.

Keep in mind that in an already weak / compromised goat, such as one carrying a heavy worm or cocci load, that any opportunistic bug can kill.

A goat who is grinding it's teeth is in pain / distress and you need to act FAST to find out what the cause is.
Things like Milk of Mag., probios, nutri drench, etc. are like bandaids.
They will not "fix" a problem if there is one, and while they will help, they sometimes help to mask other symptoms.
I try to always find out (as well as I can) what the real issue is - disease, parasite, injury, etc. - before treating because bandaids can mask other symptoms and give a false sense of security.

If I have a goat that is "down", with a temp, the *first* thing I do is hit it w/ a shot of Pen G or Nuflor (depending on the symptoms). I may also give a B shot (always a good idea) and will drench fluids or offer pain / fever reducer meds but if I suspect it's got something to do w/ the stomach, the last thing I want to do is put a bunch of extra foreign stuff down it's throat to complicate the issue and further aggravate the gut. Probiotics would be about as far as I'd go, unless it's an issue where baking soda would help (bloat). I give the antibiotic time to work and when I see improvement, *then* I'll try more 'bandaids' if I think they will help give the goat comfort.
Masking the symptoms and further upsetting the gut generally make things worse, is my point.

In reference to your question about so many local goats dying lately....
It's been my experience that when a producer loses a lot of goats at the same time, it's typically:
A) dietary - they got into something poisonous or overate something they shouldn't have had access to.
B) disease - some producers don't vaccinate (and will say, "We never have and have never had a problem." but that's just it...nobody ever has a problem until they do, if you know what I mean...) and when the right conditions happen for enterotoxemia to 'bloom'...they find out that vaccinating ain't such a bad idea afterall. Nursing a goat through tetanus (or more commonly, losing one to it) is usually all it takes to convince producers that CDT vaccinations are worthwhile.
C) parasites - again, some producers, esp. new ones, don't "know" that worms can kill as quickly as they do. If you don't keep up on herd health checks (coat condition, eyelid color, fecals, etc.) you can 'suddenly' find several very sick / dying goats... A cocci bloom can wipe out an entire kid crop.

Then there are the other more rare but relevant factors like vitamin and / or mineral deficiency (Goat polio or white muscle disease), scary diseases like listeriosis, tetanus, lepto, and less common parasites (lung worm, liver fluke, meningeal worm).

With kids, you have to always keep coccidia in the back of your mind, along w/ worms and diseases.

This is in no way meant as a 'you should have' or 'you were wrong to' post where I'm blaming you. I learned all this stuff the hard way myself, and lost goats when I was learning. I have lost 3 this past year to various ailments, goats are an ongoing learning process where you can never know everything and have to keep a constant watch on them / their behavior to stay ahead of the game.

I'm sorry you're going through this, I really am.