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banderanch
Exploring the pasture
Thanks!!! 
Drags Back Feet and Trips Or Are We Just Lazy?
- Thread starter banderanch
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A hind end problem can also be related to a metabolic problem called EPSM: Equine polysaccharide storage myopathy. It's most common in drafts or draft breeds, but is also showing up in other breeds.
We have a Shire with this problem. It has to do with the muscle cells not being able to use carbohydrates (like sweet feed), but must get their energy from fats. It's helped with a low carb feed (like a senior feed) and large supplementation of vegetable oil.
You might check do a search for EPSM and a report by Beth Valentine.
We have a Shire with this problem. It has to do with the muscle cells not being able to use carbohydrates (like sweet feed), but must get their energy from fats. It's helped with a low carb feed (like a senior feed) and large supplementation of vegetable oil.
You might check do a search for EPSM and a report by Beth Valentine.
Could be he is just sloppy, not used to working to carry himself gathered up. The hill exercise will help with that, making him USE his body, developing the muscling needed to manage his parts. You the rider, will need to help him, by containing his "Forward", not letting him zoom along, but march in cadence down the hills. I would do this hill work as often as possible, tracking it on your calendar so you know how often he is actually worked on it. I would start with 5 downhill walks each ride, build to 10 after a week to ten days of hill work. I would give him a bit of time, maybe 30 days of WORK, before asking for trot work down hill, so he can build his muscle up. Days he is not worked don't count as you build up to the 30 WORKING days before trotting. Doing the hill work for a couple months is only going to be helpful, takes a while for muscle to build strength, learn how to work that way, in developing "muscle memory" for future use.
If you have an arena or ring, you may want to do some work getting him to "bridle up" by containing his forward motion with a more collected headset, while still pushing him to REACH from behind, overstep his hoof prints. Walking at first. This kind of work is strenuous, so don't kill him at it. Short sessions, 10 minutes total, so 5 minutes each way at first. Again, you are building muscle, getting him using his back under you, teaching him better ways to carry himself. Then you can lengthen the sessions, keep driving him forward, using his hind end to push off with. This kind of work, riding, makes him strenthen his legs, gets some snap in his tendons. As he gets better, you can add trot if you can sit it, seems to work better. However a posting trot, maybe have a long whip if your legs are not strong enough to push him onward with. Some animals just have NEVER learned how to work, carry themselves in a working frame. He should NOT be hanging on your hands, but just feeling you with the reins. He needs to carry himself, not be depending you to hold him together, to better develop his body.
One last thing is for the horse who is "built lazy". We had one like this, excellent horse with a RIDER making him go gathered up. Rider just drove him on all the time they rode. When horse moved around riderless, he would do the tripping stuff, dragged a back toe pretty consistantly. Just no snap in his tendons. Had an excellent long stride, was a nice horse, but the rider "made him look good" in spite of himself. Horse would rather take a couple draggy trot steps than stride out to keep up with others or hurry when led. Shoeing changes didn't help, we did just use a toe clip to keep his toe from being rubbed down uneven with the other riding on the road. He was what he was, you had to ride with "legs of steel" to keep him marching along at the walk and trot, using his back and hindquarters.
This is where you really learn to appreciate the "natural athelete" who is always in balance, doing self-carriage naturally, because it is the most comfortable way for HIM to carry himself. He is ready for any request you give to turn, accelerate, stop, reverse, he is built for that kind of work. Usually a nice brain to go along with the physical package. I love those kind of horses, so much easier to ride, not constant work.
A last suggestion might be EPM. Here in the Midwest the opossum carries the EPM protozoa, leaves it in fields as they pass thru, and grazing horses pick it up. Protozoa stays contained in the horse spinal cord until horse is stressed in some way, which lowers his immunity and protozoa pass into the nervous system to start damages. EPM can work 2 ways, with spreading into body. Sudden onset is when one day horse is fine, next day he appears terribly uncoordinated, often falling. The second presentation of EPM develops slowly, with horse just being "off", nothing to really put a finger on. Some get crabby when they were friendly before, some tripping, not all the time. Caught early, with these lesser signs, the EPM may be successfully treated. We had a horse with it, used the Marquis treatment for 30 days, and he came back 100%. The sudden onset EPM is much less successful in treatment, they seem to be SO BAD when they show signs, there is no fixing them.
Here is a site talking about EPM.
http://heartlandequine.net/EPMdiagnosis.pdf
From another Forum, the IFAT test is ONLY done at Davis in California, seems to be the most accurate, cheapest. I would use that now, if I suspected EPM in a horse now. The spinal fluid testing costs a LOT, fluid is easily contaminated so you need to do it AGAIN, for more expense. We did the simple blood test, yes horse was carrying the protozoa. Vet suggested just doing the Marquis treatment. Cost of Marquis then was $600, and horse would still need the treatment if other expensive tests just cofirmed that he had the EPM. We went with that, to save the then $700 fee for the spinal. This was about 8 years ago. Vet said almost EVERY horse who grazes out in Michigan will be carrying EPM. MSU Vet College had not been able to find a clean herd for doing an EPM study test group! Our horse had been under stress, going alone to shows, workouts in 4-H, lots of riding, so was a good candidate for lowered immunity to the protozoa spread. Marquis would show results within 7 days if it was going to help, Vet would take back the rest of the treatment doses if no change.
This was a horse we were extremely familiar with, KNEW him well, used him for years. A really nice guy all the time, any job. Just was doing weird things for each of us handling him, and until he pulled a shoe, the 3 of us had not put our observations together. This was the MOST coordinated horse we owned, NEVER stepped on himself like that to pull off his own shoe, never pulled any shoe in 15 years of work. When we talked there was a LOT of weird stuff going on with him. I had the EPM blood work done just to rule it out of problem list, we NEVER actually thought he had it!! Husband had only seen the sudden onset EPM and horses were put down immediately. Husband didn't know about the slower version. Was sure horse didn't have EPM! Have to say the Vet was correct, and within the first 7 days of Marquis treatment horse was MUCH like his old self, happy again. Horse was not ridden or stressed AT ALL during his 30 day treatment. Then back slowly into work, no more issues. Happy, coordination was back, glad to be with the other horses, not standing off alone. Worth the expense for us. We had been thinking it was his age of 18yrs, wear and tear from years of hard use. He was fine for work again, no AGE issues at all!
So those are my two ideas, hope they are helpful.
If you have an arena or ring, you may want to do some work getting him to "bridle up" by containing his forward motion with a more collected headset, while still pushing him to REACH from behind, overstep his hoof prints. Walking at first. This kind of work is strenuous, so don't kill him at it. Short sessions, 10 minutes total, so 5 minutes each way at first. Again, you are building muscle, getting him using his back under you, teaching him better ways to carry himself. Then you can lengthen the sessions, keep driving him forward, using his hind end to push off with. This kind of work, riding, makes him strenthen his legs, gets some snap in his tendons. As he gets better, you can add trot if you can sit it, seems to work better. However a posting trot, maybe have a long whip if your legs are not strong enough to push him onward with. Some animals just have NEVER learned how to work, carry themselves in a working frame. He should NOT be hanging on your hands, but just feeling you with the reins. He needs to carry himself, not be depending you to hold him together, to better develop his body.
One last thing is for the horse who is "built lazy". We had one like this, excellent horse with a RIDER making him go gathered up. Rider just drove him on all the time they rode. When horse moved around riderless, he would do the tripping stuff, dragged a back toe pretty consistantly. Just no snap in his tendons. Had an excellent long stride, was a nice horse, but the rider "made him look good" in spite of himself. Horse would rather take a couple draggy trot steps than stride out to keep up with others or hurry when led. Shoeing changes didn't help, we did just use a toe clip to keep his toe from being rubbed down uneven with the other riding on the road. He was what he was, you had to ride with "legs of steel" to keep him marching along at the walk and trot, using his back and hindquarters.
This is where you really learn to appreciate the "natural athelete" who is always in balance, doing self-carriage naturally, because it is the most comfortable way for HIM to carry himself. He is ready for any request you give to turn, accelerate, stop, reverse, he is built for that kind of work. Usually a nice brain to go along with the physical package. I love those kind of horses, so much easier to ride, not constant work.
A last suggestion might be EPM. Here in the Midwest the opossum carries the EPM protozoa, leaves it in fields as they pass thru, and grazing horses pick it up. Protozoa stays contained in the horse spinal cord until horse is stressed in some way, which lowers his immunity and protozoa pass into the nervous system to start damages. EPM can work 2 ways, with spreading into body. Sudden onset is when one day horse is fine, next day he appears terribly uncoordinated, often falling. The second presentation of EPM develops slowly, with horse just being "off", nothing to really put a finger on. Some get crabby when they were friendly before, some tripping, not all the time. Caught early, with these lesser signs, the EPM may be successfully treated. We had a horse with it, used the Marquis treatment for 30 days, and he came back 100%. The sudden onset EPM is much less successful in treatment, they seem to be SO BAD when they show signs, there is no fixing them.
Here is a site talking about EPM.
http://heartlandequine.net/EPMdiagnosis.pdf
From another Forum, the IFAT test is ONLY done at Davis in California, seems to be the most accurate, cheapest. I would use that now, if I suspected EPM in a horse now. The spinal fluid testing costs a LOT, fluid is easily contaminated so you need to do it AGAIN, for more expense. We did the simple blood test, yes horse was carrying the protozoa. Vet suggested just doing the Marquis treatment. Cost of Marquis then was $600, and horse would still need the treatment if other expensive tests just cofirmed that he had the EPM. We went with that, to save the then $700 fee for the spinal. This was about 8 years ago. Vet said almost EVERY horse who grazes out in Michigan will be carrying EPM. MSU Vet College had not been able to find a clean herd for doing an EPM study test group! Our horse had been under stress, going alone to shows, workouts in 4-H, lots of riding, so was a good candidate for lowered immunity to the protozoa spread. Marquis would show results within 7 days if it was going to help, Vet would take back the rest of the treatment doses if no change.
This was a horse we were extremely familiar with, KNEW him well, used him for years. A really nice guy all the time, any job. Just was doing weird things for each of us handling him, and until he pulled a shoe, the 3 of us had not put our observations together. This was the MOST coordinated horse we owned, NEVER stepped on himself like that to pull off his own shoe, never pulled any shoe in 15 years of work. When we talked there was a LOT of weird stuff going on with him. I had the EPM blood work done just to rule it out of problem list, we NEVER actually thought he had it!! Husband had only seen the sudden onset EPM and horses were put down immediately. Husband didn't know about the slower version. Was sure horse didn't have EPM! Have to say the Vet was correct, and within the first 7 days of Marquis treatment horse was MUCH like his old self, happy again. Horse was not ridden or stressed AT ALL during his 30 day treatment. Then back slowly into work, no more issues. Happy, coordination was back, glad to be with the other horses, not standing off alone. Worth the expense for us. We had been thinking it was his age of 18yrs, wear and tear from years of hard use. He was fine for work again, no AGE issues at all!
So those are my two ideas, hope they are helpful.
- Thread starter
- #14
banderanch
Exploring the pasture
Sorry I'm in between moving so I haven't checked back in awhile. Anyway thanks for the info. I do not believe he has EPM we live in Arizona and moving up north.
I do have him on Purina Strategy Healthy Edge, should I switch to senior? Everyone on this site is soooo helpful ...blessings to all!
I do have him on Purina Strategy Healthy Edge, should I switch to senior? Everyone on this site is soooo helpful ...blessings to all!
laughingllama75
Overrun with beasties
Just a thought.....I would have an equine chiropractor look at him. My guy was tripping on his hind end a LOT and it turns out his hips were off. after a couple adjustments, hewas all better! Now all the equines here get regular adjustments, and I feel it keeps them happy and healthy.
