Dreaded barber pole - chances of survival?

[Mike CHS]

Mainly what has already been mentioned plus we add probiotics to their drinking water when there is any concern.

But it's a given that he isn't going to make it if all of those things mentioned aren't done.

 

[Baymule]

What they said. I don't give up until they die in my arms.

 

[farmerjan]

At the chance of being called mean, insensitive, and any host of other names..... we do not keep on, keeping on, with an animal that is stunted like this one. BUT also realize that this is a business for us too. Over the years I have had every sick, malnourished, stunted, deprived "baby" of many breeds. You pour more and more money into them only to have them die anyway. Sure, we have had some success stories. And I will do a fair amount of "Nutritive" , support like has been mentioned.

Barber Pole worms are really bad and you seldom get them to come back really good from them. Especially when they started with a couple of strikes against them like he did being small and wormy in the beginning.
You gave him a "happy life" for a few months.

There may be more here than meets the eye or the fecal sample. Maybe the reason he did not grow from a "little lamb" was not just worms.

Realize that you are exposing your other animals to these problems. Barber pole worms will get into your flock, and then you will be regretting all the kindness as they are a ROYAL BIT#H to get rid of. It is an ongoing battle here with them and this year with all the wet has made it a real battle.
I have learned over the years that the small, stunted, wormy looking, " sad sack " ones are usually not worth the time and trouble and EXPENSE.
We are having one he// of a time with calves on fall calving cows getting pneumonia and respiratory problems with all the wet COLD rainy weather we have been having. Just lost one we have been working on for over a week. Lost 2 out at pasture on their momma's before we even knew they were that sick. This weather has made anything getting sick almost a foregone conclusion that we are fighting an uphill battle. It is also a sad reality, but when you weigh the value of the animal against what it is costing to try to keep it alive, there are times that it is just not practical.
I realize that this lamb has been made a pet. So you can put a bit more into it because you have emotional value in it too. But if you are jeopardizing the health of the others, you need to take a second look.
When you bring in sick animals from somewhere else, you are bringing in the other persons problems. When this farmer said this lamb didn't grow after being wormed, it was like waving a big red flag..... DON"T. Because he won't grow. You could have gotten 2 Nice Healthy lambs for what you will have in this one. And an UNTHRIFTY lamb like this should NEVER BE USED FOR BREEDING, no matter if it seems to recover.

 

[Mini Horses]

I have no sheep. But years with mini horses, donkeys, goats, chickens, etc. -- Like SBC & Farmerjan, nursed my share -- also, agree they often are a loss no matter the care. Heartbreaking, we know There are some diseases and ailments that defy our greatest efforts.

As a caregiver we never want to stop. As a business, sometimes we must. I do second the issues you now face with your herd and their need for extra care & vigilance to keep them healthy. We understand and feel your pain. Letting go is hard....even if they were not sick, just elders.

 

[Mrs1885]

Thanks everyone.

For us it isn't a business. We have a farm sanctuary and have a lot of special needs animals. We take in sick, injured, and those that just 'aren't right'. Prior to this we did pet rescue for two decades. We are serious about quarantine and did quarantine him and tested before putting him with the flock. So I honestly can't blame it on him. The vet said barber pole has been horrible this year. Like Farmer Jan said, the wet weather has been brutal. He said they are common in the ground and rain causes them to leave the dirt and climb up the blades of grass where they are ingested. So this is all on us and apparently common this time of year. At least that's how I understand it?

Anyway, he's still hanging in there. Alert, great appetite. He was sitting up last night, still sitting up this morning. We will keep fighting as long as he does. I so very much appreciate everyone's advice and input. And Farmer Jan I don't think what you said is mean or insensitive at all. It makes complete and total sense from a business standpoint.

 

[Southern by choice]

He gave me Cidectin (?) and had me treat everyone. Because Rambo was the only one with scours he had us treat day one, day two, day 7 and day 14 then wants to retest.

The following is from ACSRPC- American Consortium for Small Ruminant Parasite Control (https://www.wormx.info/dewormers)
There is also a chart at the bottom of the page for overdose symptoms.

1) Macrocyclic Lactones This drug group consists of avermectins (ivermectin, abamectin, doramectin, eprinomectin, selamectin) and milbemycins (milbemycinoxime, moxidectin). The macrocyclic lactones are used to treat both internal and external parasites and therefore there is a risk of overdose if using the same group to treat for worms and for mites for example. This is also the reason that there is widespread anthelmintic resistance to this group especially with Haemonchuscontortus. The residence time of the drug when administered by subcutaneous injection depends on body condition score (BCS) and hence fat reserves, as the product is taken up by the fat cells and released slowly into the blood stream. Cattle treated with 1.0mg/kg showed neurotoxicity and severe toxicosis with 2 to 8mg/kg. Sheep given a 3x overdose did not show adverse effects. Reported cases of toxicity are usually due to administration errors such as administering intra- muscularly or intra-venous and repeated unintended treatment due to poor animal identification. In thin or emaciated animals there will not be a slower release and more of the drug is released into the blood stream at one time than in animals that have fat reserves. Young animals do not have a very well developed blood-brain barrier and thus are more prone to adverse effects. Goats tend to deposit fat abdominally and so have less of a subcutaneous fat reserve. Oral dosing will be absorbed quicker into the blood. Therefore this group of drugs must be used with caution in young or thin animals and goats. There is no antidote available for treatment.

This is often overlooked. High loads need to be treated cautiously. ACSRCP are the leading researchers in the country. This is a good resource.
HOWEVER, many with experience and good management will not agree with all that you find there. From vet to vet you will also have a variety of answers. There is considerably more info and research from outside the US. I see many goats/sheep die from being hit too hard- experience is what comes in to play over just articles and research.

Sickly animals (that cannot get better) or sheep/goats that have failure to thrive should humanely be put down.

And Farmer Jan I don't think what you said is mean or insensitive at all.

I absolutely agree.

Some lambs/kids will be forever stunted or unthrifty and will be problematic longterm putting the welfare of other sheep at risk.
However, sometimes it really is just bad luck, management protocol issues.

Years ago we brought in a 6 month old doe that was extremely parasite infected. We did not get her sister as she would not have made the transition, her load was so high. The doe that we did get (I ran the fecal before purchasing her so I knew the count and what we would be dealing with and made the call to still purchase her- I wanted the genetics) we quarantined did a slow and gradual deworming.
That goat was slightly stunted for the first year or so. BUT, she grew nicely, is shown, has placed consistently 1-2 in her age group, has a magnificent udder, milks great and is one of the most parasitic resistant goats on our farm. She is about to turn 5 years old. So, in the end she turned out to be very hardy, parasite resistant and is thriving. Each case is different.

 

[B&B Happy goats]

No matter what your decision is about the lamb, putting a sick or injured animal down is a act of kindness that we are not allowed to extend to our fellow humans...I wish you and the lamb the very best and thank you for giving the "unwanted" animals a safe home. You got the best advice you could receive from the most experienced people here on BYH ....Have a wonderful new year with your animals and hopefully the little lamb will pull through and thrive.

 

[Mrs1885]

Just an update.....

Rambo is doing great. His fecal Friday showed a much lower count for worms but still there. The vet said you can never get rid of the worms totally (?) but he would like to see the number lower. He said to treat him for another couple doses (once a week) and retest on 1/18. I'd like to switch to a different dewormer. I'm terrified the worms will build resistance. Thoughts?

The others are being treated too so the vet felt it would be safe to put him out when he was strong enough. By Sunday he was up bouncing all over so we put him out and he's done great.

 

[B&B Happy goats]

Our vet says the same thing....says all you can do is manage them. However @Mike CHS has been treating and doing several methods and is hovering around zero with his sheep....

I use agricultural DE, in with feed, concertrated garlic juice, and when i worm , our vet gave us a neat chart explaining what combo of chemical wormers to use...when we use them (seldom) he recomends two at a time and on safeguard 10 percent or 100 mg/ml use twice the lable dosage...withdrawal timeis 16 days for meat and 4 days for milk.add 1 day for each additional day drug is used ex: if used 2 days in a row then withold milk 5 days after second dose.

But very happy to read that Rambo is doing better

 

[Mike CHS]

We have ran fecals on several that had no worms but that doesn't include all of them. Those with zero have been on our place for a couple of years and have strong immune systems anyway. We still have a couple that have some load but none in the critical range.