Electric Fence; Not for goats and sheep?

[redtailgal]

Isnt it interesting how we all have our own methods, so dramtically different from one another and still can have healthy animals?

It's nice that there is not just one right way to do things.

Each farm works differently and we all do what is best for our own farm.

Thats what I love about this group, we all have something to teach one another and we call can learn from one another!

 

[bonbean01]

Agreed Red! So glad I found this place and it would have helped so much had I known about it before we started with sheep...made some avoidable mistakes, but so far have not lost any and just when we think we have learned so much, sheep have a way of letting you know there is still much more to learn...LOLOL!

As for fencing...we started out with the expensive (well...we thought it horridly expensive 4 years ago and the last rolls we bought this winter to do more fencing had more than doubled...yikes) fence just for the night secure area that also has three strands of electric on the OUTSIDE...not inside. Sheep had no desire to leave, but there are occasional packs of wild dogs, we hear coyotes and some neighbours think it just fine to let their pit bulls out at night. We put up their shelter in there and they are fed in there and birthing pens and bright night lights. That's for night and all are in there every night.The ram and a friend have their area with that fencing too, but they can see and hear each other and no problems with trying to get out.

Each month this winter we purchased materials for fencing a large pasture and had to do that in increments just because of the price ... but wanted to do this just once and do it right. By the time the grass came in this spring it was done and ready. Last summer we took them over to a 3 strand electric fenced area to graze, and stayer nearby ...shotgun loaded and nearby...funny...only time I had to use that shotgun was not for anything after my sheep, but two pitbulls after me. I'm not a good shot, but they hauled butt out of here pretty quickly.

As for pasture rotation, we only have three grazing areas besides the safe paddock and we check the state of the pasture and go by that. Nothing fancy, just using common sense for what works for us. Parasites have not been a problem and we use a garlic barrier, apple cider vinegar drench monthly for prevention and after four years of this, so far so good.

Now I know that this all changes depending on how many sheep you have. We have one ram, four ewes and at present four lambs...so not a large flock and if a person had hundreds of them our system wouldn't work.

Have never had goats...so no help in that department.

Wishing you good luck with sheep and making your fencing plans!!!!

Keep us posted on how you decide to go...we all learn from each other
Bonnie

 

[goathill]

SO back to my question-- what does this 10 day ordeal involve? You seemed to have not answered it.

Since this was in response to me, and not the other poster, I guess I'll do the best I can to answer in some other way. We've had these goats on this property for a year. Based on how long it takes them to browse/graze a certain area, the types of vegetation that we have, how quickly the recovery is in areas they've been in previously, the fact that they are fed and milked before being moved to the paddocks in the morning and the fact that they have access to free-choice hay, minerals and water in their nighttime pen, and free-choice minerals and water in the daytime paddocks, we chose a 10-day paddock time. They're in paddock 1 (currently) for 10 days (or maybe a day or two less, depending on what we see in each individual paddock.) After that, they move to paddock 2 for ten days. And so on, through the five paddocks we've currently got posted (but not yet lined with polytape.) By the time they're back to paddock 1, the paddock will have rested for 40 days. We have free-range chickens on our property, as well as turkeys and guineas. All of the fowl generally follow the goats, though this isn't really something we have as part of the plan, it's just what happens. We have no parasite issues in our small herd.

Not totally sure why you seem to think this is an "ordeal." It's based on what we've seen on our individual property, how our individual goats behave, conversations with other goat owners in the area, and online research, some of which even deals with the specific breed of goats we have. I hope this is sufficient for your professional curiosity.

 

[kfacres]

SO back to my question-- what does this 10 day ordeal involve? You seemed to have not answered it.

Since this was in response to me, and not the other poster, I guess I'll do the best I can to answer in some other way. We've had these goats on this property for a year. Based on how long it takes them to browse/graze a certain area, the types of vegetation that we have, how quickly the recovery is in areas they've been in previously, the fact that they are fed and milked before being moved to the paddocks in the morning and the fact that they have access to free-choice hay, minerals and water in their nighttime pen, and free-choice minerals and water in the daytime paddocks, we chose a 10-day paddock time. They're in paddock 1 (currently) for 10 days (or maybe a day or two less, depending on what we see in each individual paddock.) After that, they move to paddock 2 for ten days. And so on, through the five paddocks we've currently got posted (but not yet lined with polytape.) By the time they're back to paddock 1, the paddock will have rested for 40 days. We have free-range chickens on our property, as well as turkeys and guineas. All of the fowl generally follow the goats, though this isn't really something we have as part of the plan, it's just what happens. We have no parasite issues in our small herd.

Not totally sure why you seem to think this is an "ordeal." It's based on what we've seen on our individual property, how our individual goats behave, conversations with other goat owners in the area, and online research, some of which even deals with the specific breed of goats we have. I hope this is sufficient for your professional curiosity.

your system is far better than most people's that I deal with on a day to day basis.

I don't know how much time you have to spend moving the goats, but it sounds like you have plenty of it to spare. I also do not know how many goats you have, or the current size of your paddocks.

BUT- I might suggest splitting each of your current paddocks with a hot wire so each semi=paddock gets grazed for 5 days instead of 10. It's proven that after 5 days, the forage begins to regrow- thus enabling second time grazing (defeating the purpose of rotational grazing).

Basically, do what you are doing- but tweek it some.

 

[goathill]

your system is far better than most people's that I deal with on a day to day basis.

I don't know how much time you have to spend moving the goats, but it sounds like you have plenty of it to spare. I also do not know how many goats you have, or the current size of your paddocks.

BUT- I might suggest splitting each of your current paddocks with a hot wire so each semi=paddock gets grazed for 5 days instead of 10. It's proven that after 5 days, the forage begins to regrow- thus enabling second time grazing (defeating the purpose of rotational grazing).

Basically, do what you are doing- but tweek it some.

We may do that... but just for fuller info, we have a very small herd - just 2 does and 2 kids in the paddock system. We also have a buck, but he's kept separately on a different part of the property. We actually don't spend that much time moving them because they basically know what to do. They go in at night, they go to the paddock in the day.

To add to the original discussion about fences, one of the things that I does seem to affect the effectiveness of the fence is the size of the herd. For example, we know another guy that keeps both meat and dairy goats. The dairy herd is very small, just a couple girls. They do great behind electric. His wife keeps a small herd of sheep for fiber, same thing with the electric. The meat goats, however, of which there are many, many more, must be kept behind wire fencing. They absolutely bust apart the electric. I'm sure some of this is temperament related, but there's probably some kind of limit to the number of bodies that can be contained by electric.

 

[kfacres]

your system is far better than most people's that I deal with on a day to day basis.

I don't know how much time you have to spend moving the goats, but it sounds like you have plenty of it to spare. I also do not know how many goats you have, or the current size of your paddocks.

BUT- I might suggest splitting each of your current paddocks with a hot wire so each semi=paddock gets grazed for 5 days instead of 10. It's proven that after 5 days, the forage begins to regrow- thus enabling second time grazing (defeating the purpose of rotational grazing).

Basically, do what you are doing- but tweek it some.

We may do that... but just for fuller info, we have a very small herd - just 2 does and 2 kids in the paddock system. We also have a buck, but he's kept separately on a different part of the property. We actually don't spend that much time moving them because they basically know what to do. They go in at night, they go to the paddock in the day.

To add to the original discussion about fences, one of the things that I does seem to affect the effectiveness of the fence is the size of the herd. For example, we know another guy that keeps both meat and dairy goats. The dairy herd is very small, just a couple girls. They do great behind electric. His wife keeps a small herd of sheep for fiber, same thing with the electric. The meat goats, however, of which there are many, many more, must be kept behind wire fencing. They absolutely bust apart the electric. I'm sure some of this is temperament related, but there's probably some kind of limit to the number of bodies that can be contained by electric.

how big is each paddock? how many acres total do you have for grazing?

 

[sawfish99]

after 5 days--- the chances or regrazing occur-- this is pointless for you to argue about. You should never allow for more days,, fewer is fine- but more is not acceptable-- regardless of where you are located- CT, IL, TX, or japan.

the only thing that can be arguable-- is amount of rest time. Which I grant to you- changes during the season, and location and goal... In the spring- a shorter switch is ok- and during the summer it needs to be longer.. In any case, and circumstance--I still cannot think of a reason to involve 10 days.

I am very interested to understand why regrazing is not acceptable and should never be allowed? I haven't seen you explain the basis for that arguement.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

Most grasses store their energy reserves in the roots and crown (bottom 3" of plant). When grass is grazed, the plant sends the energy up to the plant for new growth. When the plant is grazed again, shorter than the 3" mark, the energy reserves are zapped and it stresses the plant. If the plant is overgrazed enough times, it will die. Dead grass means more opportunities for weeds to grow. In this case, re-grazing means allowing the animals access to grass that they've already grazed down.

Proper pasture rotation allows for the grass in each paddock to be grazed evenly, and never below the 3" mark (and higher for reed canary and some warm season grasses). When the animals are moved off the pasture, it allows for the grasses to re-grow and for the plant to put it's energy into new growth. Typically the 30 day mark is sufficient for this. Sometimes in early spring, 30 days is too much. Sometimes in droughty conditions, 30 days isn't enough. It depends on the species of grass, but optimum grazing (let's say for a basic cool-season grass pasture) is when the animals are put in at a grass height of 10", and animals removed when that height gets down to 3". It's very hard to come up with a set number of days per paddock, because this will be constantly changing.

 

[kfacres]

Most grasses store their energy reserves in the roots and crown (bottom 3" of plant). When grass is grazed, the plant sends the energy up to the plant for new growth. When the plant is grazed again, shorter than the 3" mark, the energy reserves are zapped and it stresses the plant. If the plant is overgrazed enough times, it will die. Dead grass means more opportunities for weeds to grow. In this case, re-grazing means allowing the animals access to grass that they've already grazed down.

Proper pasture rotation allows for the grass in each paddock to be grazed evenly, and never below the 3" mark (and higher for reed canary and some warm season grasses). When the animals are moved off the pasture, it allows for the grasses to re-grow and for the plant to put it's energy into new growth. Typically the 30 day mark is sufficient for this. Sometimes in early spring, 30 days is too much. Sometimes in droughty conditions, 30 days isn't enough. It depends on the species of grass, but optimum grazing (let's say for a basic cool-season grass pasture) is when the animals are put in at a grass height of 10", and animals removed when that height gets down to 3". It's very hard to come up with a set number of days per paddock, because this will be constantly changing.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

i would like to add- that the height of which you quit grazing for the winter-- will also directly effect the quickness of the forage to regrow in the spring time.

I'm a huge advocate of warm season grasses in the warmer areas. I believe this is the only key to year round grazing, however, most do not grazed down below 10 inches, especially for winter rest.

I would also like to add- that constant grazing (as spoken about above), normally happens in pastures where livestock continually hit the legume plants (most desirable in a pasture), and more times than not-- they will die off-- leaving most often brome and fescue to populate in a monoculture.

 

[bonbean01]

Okay...so am I understanding this correctly? In the fall do not let the pastures go lower than 10 inches before taking them off and going with all hay? Gosh, our pastures never even hit 10 inches before going to seed, so we keep what they can't eat down cut to prevent it going to seed too early.

kfacres, went to your website and your sheep are beautiful and huge!!!