Extending the Grazing Season and MIG Rotational Grazing Plans

[Farmer Kitty]

I know some use snow for water. Here, it could get you into trouble, not sure about areas such as jhm where there's wider open places. It's just not something I would recommend due to the varying degree of moisture in the snow. There can also be an issue of eating to much snow and cooling down their bodies to far--I would imagine this would especially apply to really dry snow.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

I know some use snow for water. Here, it could get you into trouble, not sure about areas such as jhm where there's wider open places. It's just not something I would recommend due to the varying degree of moisture in the snow. There can also be an issue of eating to much snow and cooling down their bodies to far--I would imagine this would especially apply to really dry snow.

:/ Never heard of that; none of the studies that I read that I linked from Foragebeef.ca said anything about the snow cooling the cattle down too much.

Either my one post was too long or what but I think I did say that the cattle would need a water source via waterers because eventually that soft fresh stuff would turn into dry, crystally and crusty snow that is not going to be readily eaten by cattle who are trained to eat snow. Nothing that deals with cooling their bodies down too much..:/

 

[Farmer Kitty]

I know some use snow for water. Here, it could get you into trouble, not sure about areas such as jhm where there's wider open places. It's just not something I would recommend due to the varying degree of moisture in the snow. There can also be an issue of eating to much snow and cooling down their bodies to far--I would imagine this would especially apply to really dry snow.

:/ Never heard of that; none of the studies that I read that I linked from Foragebeef.ca said anything about the snow cooling the cattle down too much.

Either my one post was too long or what but I think I did say that the cattle would need a water source via waterers because eventually that soft fresh stuff would turn into dry, crystally and crusty snow that is not going to be readily eaten by cattle who are trained to eat snow. Nothing that deals with cooling their bodies down too much..:/

There was an issue quite a few years ago, it was in the news but, I can't remember where it happened. There were cattle that had snow for their water source and had basically frozen from the inside out because of it. I don't know if they had had crusty snow for a bit and then fresh fell on top or what.

I know you said you would have another water source but, remember others may read this post for info. I just wanted them to realize that there is a need for another water source. Our heifers have fillled watertubs year round and yet, we will see them eating snow too.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

I know some use snow for water. Here, it could get you into trouble, not sure about areas such as jhm where there's wider open places. It's just not something I would recommend due to the varying degree of moisture in the snow. There can also be an issue of eating to much snow and cooling down their bodies to far--I would imagine this would especially apply to really dry snow.

:/ Never heard of that; none of the studies that I read that I linked from Foragebeef.ca said anything about the snow cooling the cattle down too much.

Either my one post was too long or what but I think I did say that the cattle would need a water source via waterers because eventually that soft fresh stuff would turn into dry, crystally and crusty snow that is not going to be readily eaten by cattle who are trained to eat snow. Nothing that deals with cooling their bodies down too much..:/

There was an issue quite a few years ago, it was in the news but, I can't remember where it happened. There were cattle that had snow for their water source and had basically frozen from the inside out because of it. I don't know if they had had crusty snow for a bit and then fresh fell on top or what.

I know you said you would have another water source but, remember others may read this post for info. I just wanted them to realize that there is a need for another water source. Our heifers have fillled watertubs year round and yet, we will see them eating snow too.

That's why I still like to have a water source available as well. I guess some cattle can be just lazy and eat the snow while its fresh and its there; but of course if there's water available, they'll know where it is.

 

[jhm47]

The biggest problem with using snow as a sole water source is that it takes a lot of energy/calories to melt it and warm it enough to be used in the digestive process. Snow at -30 degrees needs to be heated 62 degrees to become water, and then it needs to be heated nearly another 70 degrees to reach body temperature. That's over 130 degrees. Can you imagine how much energy that would take?

Another thing is that a cow's rumen requires a lot of water to continue the digestive process. The cow eats hay/grass, and this needs water to properly digest it. This process produces a lot of heat, and if there is not enough water (at the proper temperature), the cow will quidkly go into hypothermia.

 

[Beekissed]

WRB, have you read Salad Bar Beef by Joel Salatin? He has some interesting methods for watering and winter feeding you may want to consider.

I'm going to implement the winter feeding method on my own small place and expect it will work very well. When you hear his explanations for how and why he does the things he does, you will wonder why others hadn't thought of it. Its ingenious and it keeps the cows warm, not having to fight deep snows, keeps you from worrying about water out in the pastures AND composts your manure all winter long. All of this for 1 hour, or less, of chores per day.

His book also has a section about calving in April, especially in the more northern climes.

I think you will like the book!

 

[WildRoseBeef]

BK, I found a couple other books that are really good for grass-fed operations: Grass-fed Cattle and Small-scale Livestock Farming: A Grass-Based Approach for Health, Sustainability, and Profit. The author of the former book has a grass-fed operation up in Alaska of all places, and also tells of other folks from Grande Prairie, Alberta and Montana as well as others in the south that have grass-fed operations that do not rely on supplement-grain like corn or barley. The only time I have been able to get my hands on that book is from the library. The latter book is one I have already purchased, and is too for those who live both in the north and south who want to raise grass-fed cattle or other livestock. It's an excellent book, helping those beginners and dreamers to lay out plans of rotational grazing for various livestock of interest, as well as laying out plans for marketing their meat/livestock. I haven't quite read through it entirely yet, but I know I will in my spare time.

I haven't looked into getting that book by Salatin, but I reckon it is a good book to have. I think I will see if I can purchase that as well.








Now there's something else I have to speak my mind about, to everyone else on here. This is a back-yard cows forum, right? Which means that there shouldn't be a limitation on who can speak about whatever they feel, be it conventionally raising cattle or the niche-market grass-fed approach. I heard tell that a thread got deleted on here because of someone asking a simple, innocent question about grass-feeding cattle, and something or someone got a little offended by this post. I really couldn't make sense of that; one, because BYCows should be for EVERYONE who is interested in raising cattle; not just for you bigger conventional producers who've got the guts to shut down a thread made by someone who was just asking a simple question on the same sort of thing that I was asking about in my OP. Two, Back-yard cows should mean back-yard cows for those who want to raise a few cows on a few acres anyway they want, not just for the bigger producers.

Now don't take that as something to be offended by, but if you do, that's your problem, and my apologies if you do get offended by the above. BUT, this is something that me and no doubt a few others noticed time and time again on here, and its something that I just felt needed to be addressed. Now, if you mods want to lock this thread because of what I just said, fine, so be it. But I should say to you folks who want to go the unconventional way of raising cattle to not be afraid to ask questions. There are plenty of graziers like me and BK that would be happy to answer your questions.

Well, there's my rant for the day. Have a good one.

 

[Farmer Kitty]

The thread was moved not deleted. Please, don't go on hear say. It wasn't locked due to being about grass fed and there are other threads with people asking about grass fed here.

 

[Imissmygirls]

On the contrary, I expected this forum to cater to back yard cows rather than commercial herds.
AS a person who grew up on a commercial family run dairy farm and then had a true backyard cow ( ok front yard cos my house is in the back of the property), it is really two different ways of management.
You can take the principles of the commercial herd and convert to backyard cow, but I can't really think of any way it goes in reverse.

It's fortunate to have moderators who have commercial herds because the more animals you have, the more likely they have run into unusual situations or the more likely they can describe the normal.
IMHO the folks in charge do a very good and fair job of straddling the middle.

 

[Imissmygirls]

In addition I see much more of a difference in management techniques between beef and dairy. They may both have 4 legs and 4 stomachs, but the brain and body is very different.