First kids born, but no milk from mom?

[babsbag]

What cuties. I need to ask a question...do you know how to milk? Getting the milk out can be a trick if you have never done this before, especially if she has little teats. If you don't know how to milk, look online, you will find descriptions a lot better than what I can tell you.

x2 on the whole cow's milk. Skip the replacer. If you don't think they got any colostrum at all I might be tempted to give some of that to them, but not the milk replacer. If you know any other goat or sheep people sometimes you might find someone that has some frozen colostrum.

Good luck with them.

 

[bloonskiller911]

Any update?

 

[VKat]

Hi guys! Wow it's been busy here's an update.
Her udder is not tight. It hasn't filled with much. I do know how to milk, and did manage to express some by hand. It came out very easily, but there's hardly any.
I gave a very small amount of that colostrum supplement to the small boy kid. He was not looking good, and that was all I had. My husband found organic, grass fed cow milk. It's "cream line" whole milk, and was low temp pasteurized so it still has some enzymes in it. The same store does sell goat milk that is also like this, but you have to reserve a bottle. There is goat milk at another store but it is ultra-pasteurized so maybe not as good.

The boy took to the bottle, and I fed in very small amounts at first. He eats some and stops on his own, so I think he is regulating himself. After the third feeding he became a different goat!
He stopped crying and falling over. He became steadier on his legs and even was playful! It's amazing!
He still suckles on mom, and I think that's good. I keep hoping it will help stimulate her to produce, and anything they can get from her is better than anything I can put in a bottle.
I was offering the bottle every few hours. I also was showing it to the doeling and getting her to swallow a mouthful just in case. She wasn't very into it.

Today mom goat still has a small udder. The baby boy is looking better, taking bottle feedings and also still trying to nurse from mom. Although he seems to spend more time head butting her udder than nursing.
When I offered the doeling the bottle, she guzzled down milk like a starving beast.
I feel bad for them because I don't want them to go hungry, but keep hoping their mom can take care of them... I'm starting to wonder if her milk will ever come in.

People on another forum told me that if the babies take the bottle that means they are hungry. If they were getting fed from mom they wouldn't be interested. I felt their tummies and they are not round.

I'm not sure what will happen around here. I guess I am going to continue offering the bottle every 3 hours or if the kids cry, and leave them with mom and hope for the best. She is very attentive to them and it is very sweet to see how she cleans them and lays down next to them.

I am starting to think this momma goat may be at a disadvantage from past improper care. She is a rescue goat that was already pregnant when we got her. The people were feeding her on corn and rabbit pellets. So I was worried about nutritional deficiencies causing problems with the kids. Maybe it caused a problem for mom? Her rumen is not what books describe as well developed either. She is sort of svelte for a goat. Could lack of proper feeding during her first year have done her damage?

Is there anything more I can do to help mom make milk?
And are there any more things I can give the kids to ensure they are as healthy as possible?

Thank you guys so much for the help!

 

[babsbag]

Good for them taking a bottle, that is a huge step and if they are still trying to nurse on mom then they are probably getting some colostrum so that is good news too.

I don't know what you pay for creamline milk, but honestly the stuff that most people drink, homogenized and pasteurized, is just fine and this can get to be expensive if you end up feeding them for the entire 8-10 weeks.

To increase milk just make sure she is getting a good grain supplement, maybe some BOSS, and if you want there are some herbal supplements you can try. Fir Meadows has one called Mo-milk (I think), but I can't vouch for it.

 

[bonbean01]

Babies are very cute and sounds like mama is doing the best she can. Good job in feeding them and they should do fine with your help Mama may never be able to feed them with her history this go around. You are being a good goat nanny!

 

[jodief100]

I would feed just plain pasteurized, whole vitamin D milk. A baby will need 30-40 gallons to get to weaning and creamline milk will get very expensive fast. Feed 3 times a day,as much as they want. They don't need every few hours, 3 times a day is fine. Good luck with them. It may be best for the momma to not feed the babies and hopefully get her in better shape.

 

[VKat]

Kid and Mom UPDATE:
Wow a lot has happened since my last post!
First off, the kids are doing great
Also worthy of note, we built our own milking pump for mom. Remembering my experience as a provider for a newborn, I used a pump and it helped a lot. Anyway, it was slow going at first. We were having trouble with mom not wanting to eat much. She wanted pellets, but was not eating hay, then wasn't finishing pellets and that had me really worried. Her temp and everything is okay. I'm giving her alfalfa along with a calcium supplement. She just didn't want to eat :/

Then she was ignoring one the kids, the smaller boy baby, and stopped cleaning the doe.
I put her outside for a bit so I could clean, and behold! She was eating hay!
Since then I have let her stay outside. She started eating more normally, and I am slowly increasing her grain ration to help make milk. I also got some calf manna upon suggestion.
She is getting fed twice daily, and I milk her twice daily. Her milk is increasing! Yesterday I got 2 cups from her total. A vast improvement over the 1/2 cup total the first day.

The pump is based on the Henry Milker I saw online. We made sure to use food rated plastic tubing, and the milk goes directly from mom into a clean mason jar. Which makes it easy to store and have on hand to pour into bottles. I've been mixing the whole milk in just to bulk it out and fill tummies.

I feel weird about having her away from the kids, but it seems to be working out better this way.
The kids are being offered bottles every 3 hours, sometimes more if the boy is crying. He seems to not eat much at one time.
I also realize that all babies need affection and touch stimulation to thrive. So I have been spending a lot of time with them. I rub and pet them. I take a warm washcloth and clean them like a mom animal would. (I picked up this up working with abandoned kittens) The boy has instantly bonded to me I think. He loves to be rubbed and leans into my hand. It has taken coaxing to get him to toilet. He has initially seemed to strain to go, but that has improved.
The girl eats like a machine! It is amazing how much more energy she puts into nursing than her brother does.
When I leave, they spend most of the time hunkered down and napping. I assume this is a survival instinct. So I try to make sure I spend time after some of the daytime feedings staying with them so they feel safe to play. I feel like I give them a protective presence. They run and jump and try to climb. Watching them get stronger is really neat. I also gave them a heat mat which they like to nap on.
I know that I can not replace all a mother goat would do. But I am hoping it's okay for now.

 

[babsbag]

You are doing great and going above and beyond. They are very lucky to have you to care for them. It is great that the doe's milk supply is increasing. A lot does depend on her food and the demand so the more you milk the more she will try and make.

As far as cleaning them so they go poo, you don't have to do that. They go on their own with not help from us or their mom. Thank goodness for that.

 

[VKat]

Really? *insert my sigh of relief here*
I worry I'm not doing the right things since this is all new to me. I really appreciate the advice and feedback. Thank you!
Now that the boy is going no problem, I haven't been cleaning him as much.
The doeling's eyes get crusty a little. I think it is from dust from the bedding. So I clean her little face.
And of course, they get lots of petting and scritches.

I just finished their noon feeding and stayed with them while they played like crazy!
The boy is starting to eat more per meal. We weighted them yesterday since that was one week.
boy was 2.95 lbs, now 4.6 lbs
girl was 3.55 lbs, now 5.2 lbs

Are there guidelines for healthy weight gain? I'd love to be able to know if they are on track.

 

[babsbag]

I don't really know how much a goat should gain as I never weigh mine. As long as they are eating and playing I am good with that, I also raise Alpines so they are much bigger than yours so of course they eat more too. I don't feed mine as often either, but again, they are bigger kids. I only feed 3x a day. I usually dam raise, but there are always those times.

Here is an article by one of the best when it comes to bottle raising. You are doing great but more information never hurts.
http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=586