fox/coyote proofing

[Alaskan]

No we don’t have a dog, but I can lock them in the barn. But how do I know if it is too small of a space for them? It is fully ventilated but fenced inside the barn and about 4ft x 4ft.

So.... they are locked inside a stall that is inside the barn?

So... the stall is 4x4?

Is the barn secure from all predators?

And, how many goats? Also, what kinds (I saw you said pygmies)? (As in, 2 sisters that get along great, a doe and a wether that tolerate each other....???)

 

[pintsofclove]

So.... they are locked inside a stall that is inside the barn?

So... the stall is 4x4?

Is the barn secure from all predators?

And, how many goats? Also, what kinds (I saw you said pygmies)? (As in, 2 sisters that get along great, a doe and a wether that tolerate each other....???)

Yes, the stall is in the barn, and the barn is secure from all predators. It separates them from the rest of the barn, as there is a work bench that they like to mess with.

The stall connects to their enclosure with a flap door, but can also be closed(locked) and opened with a wooden one. Currently I let them roam inside the enclosure and the stall, and keep the food and water inside.

As for the goats, they are a Nigerian wether and a doe who get along.

 

[Alaskan]

Maybe a little small, but if they get along fine, probably ok.

 

[Stephine]

In CA they have fox and coyote roaming the cities...along with occasional larger wild things. Easy food at dumps and trash cans, coupled with loss of territory make it happen. Wildfires have destroyed a lot of habitat.

After a wildfire destroyed our home we moved into town and there - like clockwork - a band of coyotes came through every night yipping and howling. Never heard them out in the country, and have only seen one near our farm once - even though we are on a creek which serves as a wildlife corridor between two mountain ranges…
They must be finding food in town, otherwise I have no idea why they were roaming there….

 

[Ridgetop]

In CA they have fox and coyote roaming the cities...along with occasional larger wild things. Easy food at dumps and trash cans, coupled with loss of territory make it happen. Wildfires have destroyed a lot of habitat.

Doesn't matter how rural you are. More coyotes in town than seen in country! Big packs are roaming downtown Burbank! Blame people who think it is cruel to get rid of the coyotes. Their reasoning "they were here first"! Ridiculous since these towns have been here for over 100years - plenty of time to relocate. Stupid people feed them, and with the backyard fruit trees, gardens, and small pets, there are good pickings in town.

They will learn to hunt your livestock in broad daylight too. When we lost our last Pyr to cancer we tried just locking up our sheep at night. Then the coyotes started hunting them during the day. Fences won't keep them out. We use 3 Anatolians. You would think the coyotes would not venture inside our 7' fences with the dogs but we find several coyote carcasses in the yard throughout the year!

You can't cure Stupid - Oh wait! My Anatolians can!

 

[Bruce]

Are you suggesting that the LA county population increase from 936K in 1920 to 10 MILLION now hasn't taken over the natural habitat of the coyotes? And that population is 3 MILLION more than the least 10 populated states combined?

 

[Ridgetop]

No. I am not denying that more land has been built on, I was referring to the populated areas that have had houses, commercial buildings, etc, on that space for over 100 years.

However, the coyote population has increased a great deal in the past 35 years, and complaints of attacks from coyotes on pets and small children have also increased. The thing that increases the coyote threat is that the city is no longer dealing with the coyote threat by trapping and killing the excess coyote population. Coyotes are able to live and thrive in city areas. They breed and raise pups. This was well known even 50-60 years ago when Walt Disney did a documentary about a coyote living in downtown Los Angeles. The wild population of raccoons, possums, rats, and other small rodents also lives and thrives in city areas. Coyotes used to live mainly on them, as well as garbage from restaurants, garden fruit and vegetables, etc.

When a city population increases too large, people relocate. However, coyotes breed and do not relocate. Thus we are seeing a lot more coyote attacks on people, pets even when on leashes accompanied by humans walking in daylight in the parks and neighborhoods, etc.

While I might be in favor of trapping and relocating some of the illegals flooding our borders, and the homeless drug addicts occupying our parks and streets in tents and broken down RVs, that is not going to happen. However the city could and should do something about the overload of coyotes in the city areas that have become a danger to humans. Country dwellers expect the threat of predators and protect their livestock accordingly. City dwellers cannot shoot coyotes nor can they take LGDs with them while walking their children in parks or on city sidewalks.

We do not have a coyote problem within our fences due to our LGDs. However, when a woman is trapped in her car by a prowling pack of 10 coyotes in broad daylight (Burbank), and a mother has her baby attacked in a stroller while walking in a park (LaCrescenta) something should be done. Those are just 2 incidents of many in the past year. Coyotes are not an endangered species! Coyotes are not sweet fluffy animals. They are dangerous wild animals. Anyone bitten by one has to undergo painful rabies treatment.

Mountain lions are protected in California. In the past year lion attacks have increased in residential areas too. In 2 of those instances the cougar was shot, 1 child was in critical condition, and another died. Other victims were either injured, terrified, or their pets were killed or severely injured fending off the lions in their backyards. While I don't like the idea of killing mountain lions, current reports from the CA wildlife authorities are reporting record numbers of litters being born to collared and tagged cougars. Without controls on predators, it is only natural that they will spill into neighborhoods and hunt. Small children are the right size for prey and even adults are often attacked and killed by hunting cougars. It is the nature of predators to hunt. If there is nothing else, humans are weak and easily hunted. We are meat.

There is no moral question being asked and answered here - only facts about the proliferation of wild predators.

@pintsofclove wanted to know how to protect her livestock from coyotes. It really depends on the area you live in, how bad the depredation is, and the ways in which you can protect your animals and family legally. We raised our fences to 7' and keep 3 Anatolians for a 6 acre parcel. In other areas that might be overkill for the size of land. Here that many dogs is necessary.

Coyotes can jump 6' - that has been documented. They will dig under fences and into chicken houses. They eventually learn that flashing lights and sirens on an automatic alarm are not dangerous. If you lock up your animals during the night, they will learn to hunt during the day. Coyotes are clever and adapt to changing situations. LGDs in the correct numbers for the predation work well but bring their own problems of fencing, feeding, training, etc. This goes for other guardian animals like donkeys that can become aggressive to the point of killing young lambs and kids. We bought another LGD.

This site is to help with suggestions for new members. We cannot control population numbers of humans or predators, just make suggestions as to what has worked for us in our own locales. Then hope that @pints of cloves and other new members will find something in those suggestions that works for them.

Start with 6' high fencing with barbed wire or electric wire top and bottom for your perimeter.

 

[pintsofclove]

Thank you all for your suggestions!

 

[Alasgun]

Im definitely on the “whack em” side of this fence and hope that doesn’t offend anyone. As a former trapper (during the Dakota years) i have first hand knowledge of coyotes Helping a momma cow or sheep to hurry up and deliver they’re calf/lamb! Then eating it and sometimes not even waiting till the wee one was born!
no sympathy on this end.

if you live where there’s a problem population, you live where there are folks that would help with that.

 

[Ridgetop]

Helping a momma cow or sheep to hurry up and deliver they’re calf/lamb! Then eating it and sometimes not even waiting till the wee one was born!

That was happening here the year after our bad fires. Cattle ranchers were losing most of their calf crop due to coyote packs actually pulling the newborns out of the cow and eating them alive. They resorted to getting bags of guts from our butcher to lure coyotes, then they would sit up over the piles and shoot them as they came in to feed. One rancher killed 40 in a night.

Anyone who has seen what loose dogs can do to livestock too would have no compunction in shooting or trapping coyotes and stock killing dogs. Sadly here in L.A. it is more popular to be in the "they were here first" camp. Of course those are the same people that believe in open borders with no vaccination for illegals while demanding that the rest of us produce vaccine cards and wear masks.