General Guard Llama questions

[Southern by choice]

Not me- no llamas!

Sorry- thinking back you had a donkey before right?

 

[Robyn8]

so would goats with llamas and alpacas be a better option than sheep with goats? I want something with fiber i can spin, and ofo course goats just for fun. what about having goats and sheep and alternating which pasture they are on? Like one week sheep are on one pasture and goats are on the other and then we switch? would that be a better option? we are getting a Great Pyr, but I wanted him to stay inside our invisible fence area closer to the chicken coop. I'm worried he'd wander to far if we have him totally free range.

 

[purplequeenvt]

so would goats with llamas and alpacas be a better option than sheep with goats? I want something with fiber i can spin, and ofo course goats just for fun. what about having goats and sheep and alternating which pasture they are on? Like one week sheep are on one pasture and goats are on the other and then we switch? would that be a better option? we are getting a Great Pyr, but I wanted him to stay inside our invisible fence area closer to the chicken coop. I'm worried he'd wander to far if we have him totally free range.

You'd still have the issue with the minerals with goats/llamas vs sheep/llamas.

Llamas are much closer to sheep in their dietary (specifically copper) needs than a goats (except for the browsing). You CAN keep sheep and goats together, just be prepared to supplement the copper for the goats either by providing them with a separate area with goat minerals or by giving them a copper bolus as needed.

 

[Robyn8]

ok thanks! I've thought we should design separate eating areas maybe...
so how much pasture would we need per sheep then? would alpacas not decimate the grass as much? I don't mind the idea of supplementing with hay, but I don't really want a mud pit, lol. the area I want to put them is currently all grass.

 

[Southern by choice]

If you are more of a fiber person then I would say stay with sheep. There are fiber goats- Angora's. Switching once a week is still not going to help you parasite wise.
I do not understand why you would get a great pyr and then not utilize it for a LGD but then also get a llama.
Have you ever had a Livestock Guardian dog before?
Sorry but using invisible fence for a Livestock Guardian dog is NOT going to work.

Can you put sheep and goats together and just adjust the diet yes. But IMO experience there are far more issues than jut dietary.

 

[purplequeenvt]

Hello there
We are planning on getting goats and maybe a sheep or alpaca or two in the next few years. I'm looking into llamas for some protection. We're outside Ann Arbor MI, and do have coyotes, but they don't seem to be a huge problem as someone keeps goats with only a electric fence for protection on the vacant land next door. I'm looking into a llama and alpaca rescue in the area and they help you find the right animal for your needs, so I think I could reasonably assume if they tell me the llama will be a good guard that it will be. Would you all recommend we start with the goats first or the llama? I'm thinking we'd prefer to start slow with either 2 goat kids, or 2 llamas (or 1 llama and 1 alpaca - I know they need a friend and the rescue often times has animals already bonded together in pairs), and then add more to our "herd" as we go, but we want to start with a shelter and pasture big

Also how much pasture would we ultimately need when have 6 animals of any combination of goats, sheep, llamas, alpacas? How much shelter space? we were thinking like 1.5 total acres split into two pastures for 6 animals. Does that sound right? we have 10 total acres, but my husband wants to keep quite a bit for hunting, and a pond.

thanks in advance!

How much pasture you need will vary so much depending on where you are in the country and it's not something that I am not comfortable trying to determine. I'm always inclined to go bigger though.

I'd install a woven wire field fence as that will be one of the most secure options.

I wouldn't worry so much about the potential guarding abilities of the llamas. Most llamas will do the job just by being there even if they don't actually guard their pen mates. Look for an animal that is easy to handle, but not rude, pushy, or disrespectful. You'll want females or castrated males. You need at least 2.

I always sheared my own llamas with handshears. I would halter them and tie them to a fence and cover their head with a towel. That why they could see me to kick or spit at me and it kept them calmer.

 

[Robyn8]

If you are more of a fiber person then I would say stay with sheep. There are fiber goats- Angora's. Switching once a week is still not going to help you parasite wise.
I do not understand why you would get a great pyr and then not utilize it for a LGD but then also get a llama.
Have you ever had a Livestock Guardian dog before?
Sorry but using invisible fence for a Livestock Guardian dog is NOT going to work.

Can you put sheep and goats together and just adjust the diet yes. But IMO experience there are far more issues than jut dietary.

So the dog will be for protecting the chickens right now. I'm assuming if he's bonded to them he'll want to stay with them and not the goats or whatever we get like 2-3 years from now. The chicken coop is on the other side of our property from where we plan to put the goats. We do plan to train him and no I've never had a working LGD but as a veterinary technician I am very knowledgeable on dogs and dog training and will learn what I need as we go. The breeder we are getting him from has hers on a working farm and they use an invisible fence so I guess it works for some. We'll see how it goes! I'm very ok with him ending up as a pet only if the guarding doesn't work out.

I'm mostly just hypothesizing for the future and trying to learn ahead of time on the bigger animals. I know it may not work out as I have it in my head right now.

 

[Southern by choice]

We do plan to train him and no I've never had a working LGD but as a veterinary technician I am very knowledgeable on dogs and dog training and will learn what I need as we go.

No disrespect but LGD's are not other dogs and are not trained or worked with in the same manner. As a trainer of many variety of classes(groups) The LGD's are different.

For every ONE person invisible fence works for there are probably a hundred or more that it is nothing but a joke.
These dogs are courageous and if a dog can take on a wolf, a few coyotes or whatever predator do you really think a little shock on the neck is going to keep them in when there is a predator in the midst?
Our LGD's have broken steel T-post by hitting them so hard because coyotes were on the other side of the fence.
Once the dog goes through and pursues the threat they are GONE!
As a breeder/trainer I will never sell a LGD to anyone without proper fencing.

Just trying to save you headache and heartache.

 

[Robyn8]

How much pasture you need will vary so much depending on where you are in the country and it's not something that I am not comfortable trying to determine. I'm always inclined to go bigger though.

I'd install a woven wire field fence as that will be one of the most secure options.

I wouldn't worry so much about the potential guarding abilities of the llamas. Most llamas will do the job just by being there even if they don't actually guard their pen mates. Look for an animal that is easy to handle, but not rude, pushy, or disrespectful. You'll want females or castrated males. You need at least 2.

I always sheared my own llamas with handshears. I would halter them and tie them to a fence and cover their head with a towel. That why they could see me to kick or spit at me and it kept them calmer.

Thanks for the helpful comments. I'll definitely keep it in mind!

 

[Bruce]

You want to check out the LGD threads. This GP you are getting, are you talking a pup or an adult working dog? Because if it is the first, you have a long road before it is old/large enough to physically take on a predator especially one the size of a coyote.

Since it wasn't specifically said, but was kinda mentioned, camelids should NOT have copper which is why you have to be careful to keep them away from any goat feed or minerals that have copper. They also shouldn't get into the chicken feed.