Genotype of my NZW

[Tale of Tails Rabbitry]

I bred a NZW buck twice. First to a Gold-Tipped Black Steel with a NZW sire carrying broken and a Blue Silver Fox dam. I believe the Steel's genotype is:

Aa B_ Cc Dd EsE Sisi Enen

I got 2 REWs, a GT Black Steel, and a Self Black that appears to be silvering somewhat at 10 weeks old.

His second breeding was to the Blue Silver Fox that is the Steel's dam:

aa B_ CC dd E_ sisi

This pairing gave me two that are tan patterned and three self blacks. First time for "at" patterns in my rabbitry but the NZW is new to us. They appear just black and white at five days old. I am not seeing any other coloring or edging, so I am curious about what they would be called and their genotypes. They have to be otters, right?

I mostly want opinions on the NZW sire. I think his genotype likely would be:

ata B_ cc DD E_ enen

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hens and Roos]

@Bunnylady @promiseacres

 

[Tale of Tails Rabbitry]

It finally warmed up enough that I could take the kits out of the nest into sunlight for some pictures and all five are different. I really did not see as much of that steel before so now I am thinking Agoutis. One is all black and one looks silver-tipped, especially next to the gold-tipped. The genetics are doing my head in.

These are the same three:

These are the other two:

 

[Tale of Tails Rabbitry]

Is this a chinchilla on the left?

 

[promiseacres]

Looks like a chin and agouti. So dam would be cchd but not sure on buck. A rew will generally produce whatever he,she is bred to.

 

[Bunnylady]

I was thinking you needed to give them a couple of days more before you ruled out agouti patterns. From what I have seen, steel is pretty common in NZ's, tan not so much. The Chinchilla would have to come from the doe, of course. The solid black could be a "super steel," so you can't be sure about self (a) in the buck.

 

[Tale of Tails Rabbitry]

Thank you both, @promiseacres and @Bunnylady. This kindle is so doing my head in. It would probably be more fun if I was not looking for a particular things to NOT to be in his genotype right now, but so it goes with mysterious REWs.

I would not have thought my Silver Fox doe was carrying chin. That is a sursprise. I have bred her several times over the years with another NZW buck and I don't think I saw chin crop up before... or maybe it did in a few brokens and I just did not connect the dots then...? But I think I would have noticed because I like the chin coloring. Makes me wonder how that got into the mix of my purebred but then pedigrees only go back a few generations.

At this point I am not sure of any of the other three because they are blacks but not the same. One is a solid black, one looks it may be a GT Black Steel, and the other looks like a self but when place next to the other black, it looks as if it has a slightly golden cast all over. I will try to get good pictures in a couple of days and see if the photo shows what I am seeing with my eyes.

So, I agree that the buck is definitely carrying Agouti.

I had not considered that my SF doe might carry steel. I will have to think about that one. We did not keep much in records in regards to colors until about two years ago, but we only saw one steel with her and the first NZW buck we had.

Thanks again so much!

 

[Tale of Tails Rabbitry]

Okay, the black that did not look quite black to me now looks solid black.
So I got two solid black and one black GTS besides the two Agoutis.

Thanks for the help everyone. Next time I will try contain my excitement--try--and wait a few days to see how the fur grows out, but this is my last breeding with any NZW bucks as he is going to a new NZW breeder along with my last NZW purebred doe. Then I will only have one doe that is a NZW/SF cross left in my breeding rotation and I have her down except for one thing...I do not know if she carries chocolate. My Silver Foxes are beginning to come of age so I am hoping they will be less diverse genetically, however I now know I have a blue doe carrying chinchilla and a black doe carrying white. So, the C locus is something I am going to be testing and watching more closely now...what could possibly go wrong?

Tomorrow I should see this kindle starting to open their eyes. I love that day!


On another note, my daughter said to me, "Mom, you know we have rabbits, don't you? Rabbits do not turn into otters or chinchillas." They are so full of all the world's knowledge when they are teenagers--especially if it is to prove a parent is wrong!

 

[Bunnylady]

When you put the two blacks beside each other, do they look the same? The Chinchilla gene doesn't just take yellow out of the coat, it takes a little bit of black, too. A self-patterned chin will be a little bit lighter than a full color self. Another thing that can tip you off is eye color; chins often have gray eyes.

 

[Tale of Tails Rabbitry]

Thank you, @Bunnylady. I was certain that they did not look the same from the beginning. One had looked off, perhaps more seal colored to me, rather than true black, until today when I put them together again, I thought they both looked the same, but... I had read something about chin affecting the eye color so I will be taking a close look at their eyes when they open, hopefully tomorrow or will that not really show this early?