Goat Weak Legs, Not Off Feed

[abraeri]

Have your goats ben tested for CAE? The crackling in the joints sounds like it might be an arthritic condition.

Yes they have been tested and are negative.

Have you tried injectable Vitamin B?

We have not given injectable, but have been giving her crushed up human super b-complex.

If she is going into or has ketosis, you can certainly dose her for that. I would consider the possibility that her system is pulling all the calcium out of it for the kids.

I have been giving her 'magic' at 20 cc twice a day for the past few days. I might give a higher amount today. Do you know if too much cal mpk can be a problem? I could be sure she is calcium deficient but she scared me when she did that spazzing right as I was giving her the cal mpk.

I would plan to bottle feed the kids regardless. Whether she recovers or not, bottle feeding is the safest strategy and you should get formula ready now so you are prepared. You can keep the kids with her if you like hoping that she recovers.

We have frozen colostrum and milk from last year. Our other does won't be kidding until a month later. Should we buy formula or is the frozen milk better?

She did have a bit of a difficult kidding last year due to having one large kid who had to be pulled out. However, this difficulty she is having now, if toxemia, is a lot my fault for not keeping up with her nutritional needs. On the other hand she hasn't been the most energetic goat and I have been considering not wanting her genes in my herd. She hasn't had a doe kid so not sure.

 

[Ridgetop]

Frozen colostrum and milk is fine.

No treatment for a stroke or nerve damage except time to allow the possible recovery of faculties. I would be on the spot to assist with her kidding and watch closely since if she is partially paralyzed on one side, she might need help from you pulling the kids. I would bottle feed the kids. Try to milk her on the stand. Maybe build a ramp for her? See if she can milk ok - let down working etc. Dry her up sooner than normal, and see if she recovers over the next 6 months. I would not breed her again since she could suffer another stroke.

Here is an article I found on line about meningeal worms. The symptoms seem similar. M-worm: A nightmare for goat, sheep, and camelid owners - The Thrifty Homesteader

If she has meningeal worms, the recovery is not good unless you treated her immediately with high doses of Fenbendazole, Ivermectin, etc. 110-20% only.
If she has meningeal worms and recovers, she may have received permanent damage to her spine and brain that will not recover.

If it were me, I would pull the kids as soon as they are born, heat treat the colostrum, pasteurize their milk, and bottle feed. This will have the added benefit of allowing the doe to recover as much as she possibly can without the stress of lactation. If the doe remains affected, put her down and have a necropsy to find out the cause. If you have M-worms on the property, you will want to know.

I hope this doesn't sound harsh or cruel. If she is not going to recover, putting her down and pinpointing the cause would be the best thing for her and for you and your herd.

Here is another interview by the same author with a vet about this worm. This article might help you decide what to do.

Deer Worm in Goats​

01.27.2021 by thriftyhomesteader // Leave a Comment

Episode 34​

For The Love Of Goats​

"Tatiana L. Stanton 31:42
I know, my experience has been with it—I had some goats on that study—is that, while they can make it through one pregnancy, the damage will repeat itself. And they used to think, “Oh, they’ve been infected with deer worm again.” But what it really is, is that they have nerve damage. And even though you’ve treated them for them, and they’re doing well, it may be the next breeding season when the buck mounts them, or hey, someone beat them up, you know. It aggravates that nerve damage. And then, of course, being pregnant again. So what I’ve found is, usually, the animals I have that recover enough to be breeding-sound, but are still slightly off, that usually they’ll get worse and worse in succeeding pregnancies. And so they usually won’t live out as long a life, you know. I will usually cull them at some point rather than having them live out a really, really long life. You know, so you have to play it by ear and know that there was that nerve damage there, and you’ve masked it, and maybe they’ll fully recover, but maybe they won’t.
Deborah Niemann 32:42
That’s really good to know, because the one I had was young when she got it, and the one who recovered. But, if you have an animal that, you know, like, is a finished champion, or just very valuable to you for some reason, you know, she’s only four or five years old, you should realize that your time for breeding her may be shorter than normal. So, if you wanted to do that awesome breeding with her and your favorite buck, do it this year, because next year might not be so good."

 

[abraeri]

Thank you very much for all the advice. If she doesn't recover / seems to have some kind of permanent damage, we definitely won't be breeding her again. Counting days to due date; just need her to stay strong.

 

[abraeri]

Well for an update... she's still about that same I'd say. Her udders are filling a bit. And she does turn into a little speedy gonzalez when she sees the grain bucket. I have to tell her to slow down! Tonight I heard a bit of a wet cough coming from her which i s a little worrying. We try to keep her on her feet as much during the day as possible while also letting her rest her feet, but she does sit almost 6 hours through the night. Her temperature is normal. We're done with the Panacur course for meningeal. Still giving her 'magic', lots of peanut hay, cal mpk (once a day now), grain, sunflower seeds, and vitamin B.

 

[Alaskan]

Well for an update... she's still about that same I'd say. Her udders are filling a bit. And she does turn into a little speedy gonzalez when she sees the grain bucket. I have to tell her to slow down! Tonight I heard a bit of a wet cough coming from her which i s a little worrying. We try to keep her on her feet as much during the day as possible while also letting her rest her feet, but she does sit almost 6 hours through the night. Her temperature is normal. We're done with the Panacur course for meningeal. Still giving her 'magic', lots of peanut hay, cal mpk (once a day now), grain, sunflower seeds, and vitamin B.

Thanks for the update

 

[messybun]

Is it possible your goat has gestational diabetes?

 

[abraeri]

Is it possible your goat has gestational diabetes?

I guess it's possible; the molasses is definitely helping her a lot. I don't see many articles about that though; what would be the symptoms, or how could I determine if it is? A blood test?

 

[messybun]

I guess it's possible; the molasses is definitely helping her a lot. I don't see many articles about that though; what would be the symptoms, or how could I determine if it is? A blood test?

Honestly I’m not sure, when you mentioned ketones it reminded of my friend who had gestational diabetes, and some of her symptoms reminded me of my diabetic dog. Especially only moving when the grain bucket is close at hand. And caprine diabetes makes them more parasite prone. It was just a weird thought, I don’t know how to treat it or anything. Just maybe something to ask the vet about?

 

[abraeri]

She's given birth to two healthy little boys! They took a little time to get on their feet but now are walking and nursing fine! Unfortunately, the mother still cannot get up on her own, and has some difficulty peeing without sitting down. She is a very very attentive mother this time around though; talking to them, won't stop licking them. We're hoping we can dam raise; I don't think it would be good to separate her kids from her and we're home all the time so if she isn't able to recover in a few days we can still pick her up often enough for the kids to drink. Sort of like bottle feeding schedule, but from the dam

A very easy birth too! I noticed her pawing at the ground (mind I'm thinking her due date is the 20th) so I go down to sit with her in the barn. She starts getting goopy, then peeing in bursts with more discharge. Finally she sits down and starts pushing. Both kids were positioned head first with one leg behind them. On the first one I was able to reach in and pull the other leg out to be in proper position, but the second one's head and one foot came out too fast (and I couldn't find his other leg) so I had to give him a little pull and he turned out fine. I'm still surprised there were only two (and 7 lbs only) and that they were even alive. Much better than her last kidding (what a surprise!).

 

[Alaskan]

She's given birth to two healthy little boys! They took a little time to get on their feet but now are walking and nursing fine! Unfortunately, the mother still cannot get up on her own, and has some difficulty peeing without sitting down. She is a very very attentive mother this time around though; talking to them, won't stop licking them. We're hoping we can dam raise; I don't think it would be good to separate her kids from her and we're home all the time so if she isn't able to recover in a few days we can still pick her up often enough for the kids to drink. Sort of like bottle feeding schedule, but from the dam

A very easy birth too! I noticed her pawing at the ground (mind I'm thinking her due date is the 20th) so I go down to sit with her in the barn. She starts getting goopy, then peeing in bursts with more discharge. Finally she sits down and starts pushing. Both kids were positioned head first with one leg behind them. On the first one I was able to reach in and pull the other leg out to be in proper position, but the second one's head and one foot came out too fast (and I couldn't find his other leg) so I had to give him a little pull and he turned out fine. I'm still surprised there were only two (and 7 lbs only) and that they were even alive. Much better than her last kidding (what a surprise!).

Oh how wonderful! Super cute tiny little kids!



I hope that with the babies out she will perk up at least a little.

What a crazy ride!!!!