Ground rod question

[babsbag]

I just learned something new. That is why this BYH is so awesome. @greybeard thank you for the great explanation and I guess since something works it doesn't mean it is the right way.

 

[greybeard]

I've touched so many in my life.... most body parts have been zapped.

Nothing like hitting one while standing in a Creek. Only time I've ever been injured was about 50 years ago I got stuck under one and it was across my eye. Eye was swollen for several days.

I have a feeling the energizers were a little different then. More frequent pulses, maybe higher amperage well.

Biggest concern was damaging the energizers.

50 years ago, most chargers were not pulsed at the same length as today's chargers--and some were not pulsed at all. High impedance chargers. The old ones that were pulsed, accomplished the pulse via a mechanical switch, which of course was meant it was closed (on) for longer length of time and open (off) for usually the same amount of time. You could stand by the charger and actually hear the click--click--click of this switch. You could easily count the pulses off and the 'on' time was over 1 second. Why? No mechanical device can operate for long at the rates needed to qualify as a low impedance charger--they would just wear out. Modern low impedance chargers accomplish the pulse via an integrated circuit board, and that "on" pulse is extremely short--no moving parts. They have an on-time somewhere in the 100 micro-seconds range (100 millionths of a second), but still emit a pulse at rates of about 50-60 times per minute, meaning the control circuit is off for far longer than it is on.
You can still get long on pulse chargers and even no pulse chargers. Most small chargers for pet training are un-pulsed. If they don't say low impedance, then they are most likely not a pulse type charger, or are a high impedance pulsed charger. The down size to high impedance is voltage drop at the end of the fence.

I have had lots of volt-ohm meters in my time, including some very good ones when I was an electronics tech in the military. Some were rated at 10kv, but most of even the high end ones we peons see in everyday use are rated much much less. The one I am using now is rated at 1000vac and 750vdc. Any decent fence charger will put out 5000v. At best, using an off the shelf VOM, you will burn a fuse in less than the blink of an eye, but often, they use mini-fuses, and that little fuse only has a short piece of glass less than 3/8-1/4" long. 5000+ volts can jump that little gap and go on to wreck havoc on your VOM's board, and I'm not sure the insulation on the leads would be rated high enough to handle 5KV either. Household wiring is generally rated at only 600v. Fence hookup wire's insulation is rated around 20,000 v. I do not know what the insulation on my vom's leads is good for.

The only time I would even consider using a common ground is if both chargers were exactly the same--same brand, same model, same output rating, and if both fences used the same wire type and diameter and very very close to the whole total length. (length of run X # of hot wires).

Now, for the real argument.
Which means more-Joule rating or voltage rating?
It's been a never ending source of debate.
Zareba, Stafix and Gallagher all go by joules--Parmak (Parker McCrory) says joules is meaningless.

6.Q.How does the joule relate to the performance of an electric fence charger?

A.It doesn`t. It would take a lengthy discussion to explain all of the different factors which make an electric fence effective and safe. The joule does not measure the effectiveness or safety of electric shock.


Two easily measured factors determine fence charger performance. Guard voltage and shock current. Safety dictates that the amount of shock current, on time (the amount of time the shock is on the wire) and pulse rate be held within strict tolerances established by recognized safety agencies such as Underwriters Laboratory (U/L) and Canadian Standards Assoc. (CSA). The value expressed in the joule does not decode to the user the effectiveness of a shock.

What controls livestock is voltage and current. You must have voltage in order to force electricity through the conductor (fence wire) as well as vegetation touching the fence, etc., and you must have current in order for the livestock to feel the shock.

The most effective fence charger will have the highest, safest power (voltage and current) possible with the shortest on-time, thereby allowing the fence charger to develop a shock which is more effective and at the same time is safe to use.

Example of how misleading the Joule rating is: The Parmak model Pet Gard is a continuous current, non-pulsing type charger designed for very small animals in backyards, gardens, etc. Using the joule rating (Voltage x Amps x Time) the Pet Gard (PG-50), because it is a continuous current fence charger, would have an unlimited joule ratingmaking it the most powerful fence charger, which it is not.

In summary, it is important to point out that Underwriters Laboratories (U/L) or CanadianStandard Assoc., (CSA) do not recognize the joule as a measurement when applied to electric fence chargers.

Sounds like a good argument and Parmak has been around a long long time and makes good products, until you consider a couple of things.
1. It's impossible to get a high joule rating without also having a high voltage to compute that matmatically derived j figure from.
2. We all generally purchase our chargers based on it's price and joule rating, but we test our fences by measuring for voltage. (no tester can produce a test figure in Joules because the tester doesn't know what the real world value of fence impedance/resistance and the resistance to voltage that is present in the animal being shocked is-- Voltage÷ resistance= amps ) Then of course, we have to consider T (time) since the formula for Joules also says energy is the # of watts produced in 1 second. Way beyond our capabilities, so we gladly settle for Volts and are on our merry way.

 

[chiques chicks]

Actually enjoy all this information.

Interesting, too, my one is a Paramak low- impedance 30 mile design. I looked it up at their website, since I got it rescued from a junk pile and replaced the solar panel and battery. I can actually time the pulses if I'm within about 10 feet of it! Mines about 10-12 years old, but the model is still made. I also opened it up and it is circuit controlled, not mechanical.

Small one is a Zareba, actually part of Wood stream in Lititz, PA, a maybe 15 miles from me. They also make Victor mouse and animal traps as well as numerous outdoor and animal control products. Actually an old and trusted company. I was using their leg hold and body traps 50 years ago as well. Which explains one reason I hit a lot of fences, lol.

Yeah, old re-planted country fool, lots of great and not so great experiences, funny now, but not at the time.

 

[greybeard]

I used to use AFW chargers, but when they decided to compete globally in the late 90s, and changed their fenceing company's name to Zareba simply to get rid of the 'American' part, their quality also suffered--like many US electronics companies, they started using Chinese components on their boards and Chinese caps as well. I would guess that up to 90% of the problems with electronics today is from bad capacitors, on everything from TVs to computers to bug zappers and fence energizers.
Not a fan of Zareba's yellow tee post insulators either--they have a tendency to crack and fal off the post--won't handle much UV. I do have a Zareba 100 mile charger as a backup to my primary--a 12 joule Taylor Cyclops. They make a 20J and a 32J as well, and tho that is some serious capacitance, I can't justify $900 for that 32 j unit.
http://www.taylorfence.net/acBossCharger.php
There's really only a few companies any more, even tho there are a lot of different brands.
Sta-fix, Speedrite, Patriot are all part of Gallagher (New Zealand company), and Gallagher is part owner of TruTest (another New Zealand co)
Gallagher has always been the brand to beat anywhere in the world. Their chargers fence millions of sq miles of cattle and sheep ranches in NZ and Australia, but they ain't inexpensive.
StaFix, SpeedRite, RedSnapr, and a few others used to all be stand alone companies when I first started raisin cattle in the late 60s.

 

[babsbag]

I agree on the insulators, I replaced quite a few today as a matter of fact. Do you have a brand that you like better? I have been using Zarebas DC chargers for about 8 years and have had to replace more than my fair share. They last about 2 years, which isn't great for 125.00. I bought a Fi-Shock brand one at Lowes or Home Depot and pretty sure it is a Zareba as well, it lasted a year. Maybe I will get a Patriot when I buy my next one; I saw them at a local feed store the other day. I need a new one for my back pasture so now is a good time to try something new.