HELP fainter girl swollen lumps (lymph nodes?) on neck

[chicks & ducks]

I have a 2 year old fainter girl with 2 golf ball size lumps on either side of her neck. They are not directly under her chin or down by her front "shoulders". She wears a neck collar and they are just above that, so about half way between chin and shoulders. She's acting fine, eating fine etc. I just noticed them when I went to put a lead on her.
I've given her a dose of garlic/cayane/acv/vitamins. Tried googling it but the images I see aren't showing swelling in the same spot she's having. If it's not lymph nodes I have no idea what it could be. My normal vet retired, will call another vet in the morning but would like to hear thoughts from folks here as well.

**edit to add no fever. Temp 101.9. Lumps are towards center of neck, larynx? Not by jaw or head.

 

[rachels.haven]

They sound like abscesses. You should probably test for CL asap to rule it out. Don't let them rupture and drain on ground or equipment the rest of your herd uses. It's quarantine time.

Waddl has a way you can send pus into them for a culture without a vet's help, but then they are open and you get exposed. I recommend if you go that route to keep her penned over concrete that's far from the others and if possible not able to be rained on so you can bleach the area down either positive or negative results/toss the pen. Testing the pus is the most reliable way to clear CL as a possibility and if it's not they will tell you which bacteria are causing it. Supposedly CL abscesses are "non odorous" and the one time I sent pus into them I knew when I opened the abscess that it was very odorous and I about passed out and tossed cookies on the concrete shop floor with a struggling baby goat and a scalpel in my hands. Have a friend help. Wear gloves and long sleeves. Keep the pus and fluids off you.

You an also test blood samples, but it's less reliable because the body is walling off the infection and due to that may only intermittently show an immune response or will individuals will sometimes flip a "suspect" if stressed even if not positive. It's more of a whole herd screening test. It's better than nothing though.

There is life after CL. You can cull her and weed through your herd or some people chose to treat the abscesses as they come and keep the animal. IDK if there is currently a vaccine on the market for goats for it.

 

[chicks & ducks]

I was worried about that. I have another question now,

They sound like abscesses. You should probably test for CL asap to rule it out. Don't let them rupture and drain on ground or equipment the rest of your herd uses. It's quarantine time.

Waddl has a way you can send pus into them for a culture without a vet's help, but then they are open and you get exposed. I recommend if you go that route to keep her penned over concrete that's far from the others and if possible not able to be rained on so you can bleach the area down either positive or negative results/toss the pen. Testing the pus is the most reliable way to clear CL as a possibility and if it's not they will tell you which bacteria are causing it. Supposedly CL abscesses are "non odorous" and the one time I sent pus into them I knew when I opened the abscess that it was very odorous and I about passed out and tossed cookies on the concrete shop floor with a struggling baby goat and a scalpel in my hands. Have a friend help. Wear gloves and long sleeves. Keep the pus and fluids off you.

You an also test blood samples, but it's less reliable because the body is walling off the infection and due to that may only intermittently show an immune response or will individuals will sometimes flip a "suspect" if stressed even if not positive. It's more of a whole herd screening test. It's better than nothing though.

There is life after CL. You can cull her and weed through your herd or some people chose to treat the abscesses as they come and keep the animal. IDK if there is currently a vaccine on the market for goats for it.

I was worried about that.
I've been trying to read about it now and I'm concerned about how it spreads. Although she has no open abscesses, she slobbering all over me when I gave her a dose of garlic. How concerned do I need to be? Pretty sure I washed my hands when i got back in, but im immune compromised. Is it only spread by pus? She has been sharing food and water with my 4 other goats

 

[rachels.haven]

I was worried about that. I have another question now,

I was worried about that.
I've been trying to read about it now and I'm concerned about how it spreads. Although she has no open abscesses, she slobbering all over me when I gave her a dose of garlic. How concerned do I need to be? Pretty sure I washed my hands when i got back in, but im immune compromised. Is it only spread by pus? She has been sharing food and water with my 4 other goats

It's only spread by the pus, but you might want to wear gloves and be careful when handling her while she's sick at all if you're immune compromised even if it winds up being something else causing abscesses. Stay safe!

 

[Skiesblue]

I found a 2015 thread on this site called Cruels and boil pest. There is information there as well as my experience with a disease the Brits call Cruels that mimics CL. I would have tests done to see what you’re dealing with. My username was Bluesky, had to change it, long, dull story. Good luck. Lavender Fleece an Icelandic sheep site has information too.

 

[chicks & ducks]

@Skiesblue and @rachels.haven thank you both for the replies!

I've called my vet, and my (now) emergency back up vet. My long standing vet retired recently, so I called my new 'main' vet and he's no longer doing large animals because 'the money is in cats and dogs' and he just doesn't have the room to stock all the supplies for large animals, nor the time to work on them. Fair enough I suppose.

I called my emergency back up vet. Only been to her once, with a stray cat in dire need of help. Called her and she also doesn't do large animals.

SO... I have a call into a new vet, but the receptionist couldn't say if they could take me on as a new client. I explained and she's going to call me back with a decision. I told her at the very least some advice would be appreciated, even if they can't see my girl.

I'm too scared to lance it myself. I have muscular distrophy, take immune suppressors which would make me extra vulnerable, plus if my hands, arms or body go weak while I'm working on her I could hurt her, myself, or just make a big mess and get the pus everywhere.

The lumps DO seem to have gone down in swelling a bit, hopefully that means they're less likely to burst today at least.

To make my already fantastic day even better, when I was out checking on everybody I noticed mites/lice. FanTAStic. So I was running around the pasture chasing them and throwing diatomaceous earth at everybody, including the chickens! Now they all look like ghosts ready for Halloween! They're all due for safeguard anyway, but sheesh.

This is getting to be depressing, so I added a pic of her(black) and her brother(white) when they were just babies. They are still best buds to this day.

 

[Mini Horses]

Do you have an experienced goat person near? Thinking they might be able to help. Can you take her to your vet -- who now does only dog & cats-- ?

I mean, he could lance, clean out & send a sample out. Geesh....it takes a scalpel, iodine & a vial to send. Nothing special there. There used to be a CL vac for goats & I believe it was taken from market due to low sales ? Seems sheep vac was kept on market but doesn't seem to work for goats.

So, pretty much the CL matter is thicker, almost soft cheese consistency, and most other abscesses are thinner, runny almost. As a visual only, that's a hint as to what you may have going on. Testing is key. Before it bursts, normally the skin stretches and an almost bare area shows...then breaks open, 24-36 hrs usually. Just what to watch for as info.

@rachels.haven is right, wear gloves, bleach after, etc.

 

[Skiesblue]

If it’s any consolation I’ve read that CL and Cruels are rarely fatal at least in sheep. The lumps will break on their own so you may merely need to clean up, maintain a quarantine (remember to clean your footwear!) and keep trying for a vet. My quarantine stall has a sign that reads “Baaa Spa”. Let us know how she does.

 

[rachels.haven]

I hope you find a vet or a goat friend that can help you test and rule out CL and the health threat to you and your other goats. Good luck!