HELP GAGGING MALE GOAT!! **SAD UPDATE**

[WhiteWaterFarms]

we found a vet to come out, she had a hard time getting the prolapse back and had to use a lot of stitches to hold it. Her saw the food (we feed free choose noble goat and alfafa oat mix hay.) and asked if we'd seen him pee, we hadn't so she say she thinks it's a crystal in his pee that is stuck and he can't pee. So she gave use meds to break it up and anti-inflammatory shots. But it's up in the air if he'll make it....

 

[Ms. Research]

Wishing the best for him. Hoping he surprises everyone and is back to his ole self in no time.

K

 

[SuburbanFarmChic]

Change the title of this to ATTN CM : Buck not peeing.

 

[cmjust0]

It's easier if I just paste this from another thread...

I'm thinking this may be a good thread to re-iterate a treatment that worked for me, and has since worked for at least two others that I shared it with. I'm going to just list out 'steps,' as it were, for the sake of brevity (which isn't normally one of my stronger suits).

1) Clip the pizzle. It's the little curly-Q that hangs of the tip of the weenis. I'd suggest a sharp knife, but keep in mind that if you couldn't clip off whatever you're *thinking* is the pizzle with a pair of toenail clippers, you're looking at the wrong thing.

2) Acepromazine, injected. You'll have to consult a vet to get it anyway, so get the dose from them. Used in this case to relax the spasming muscles of the sigmoid flexure. I *personally witnessed* my own almost-totally-blocked UC buck let loose and pee like a racehorse about 2min after a dose of Acepromazine, as his apparent UC blockage at that time was really just that his sigmoid flexure was spasming.

3) Ammonium chloride, drench @ 3g/22lbs of goat, 1x/day for a week.

4) Dexamethasone, 1ml/20lbs of goat, IM, 1x/day for at least a week, then tapered-down dosage for several days after that. Long-acting anti-inflammatory. The urethra very often becomes extremely irritated on account of the goat passing sharp crystals through the urine, and will actually swell shut. Dexamethasone (and banamine, below) will help avoid/treat that problem. MUCH better to *avoid* it, though, which means giving Dexamethasone right away..

5) Banamine, 1ml/100lbs. I give it IM, but SQ will work. Pain relief, but perhaps more importantly is that it's a fast-acting anti-inflammatory.

6) PenG -- 1ml/15lbs of goat, 2x/day through an 18 or 20ga needle, for the duration of the Dex treatment.


So basically, there ya go. When you realize your buck or wether has UC, ideally you'd want to have all of the above done within just a few minutes. If you lack the meds, do as much of it as you can and consult a vet ASAFP and *demand* that they give you Dex, Banamine, and Acepromazine.. If they don't understand why -- I've known this to happen -- explain it as best you can, but ultimately you may have to simply DEMAND it.. Most vets at that point just kinda go..."well, whatever"...and give you what you think you need, provided they don't think it will necessarily *hurt* anything..

Another thing -- DO NOT allow your veterinarian to attempt to run a catheter through the goat's urethra into its bladder. The male goat has a hairpin bend in his urethra which *will* prevent any attempt to reach the bladder, and in all likelihood, the vet will try and try and try before giving up, which will only lead to more and more irritation and potential swelling of the urethra. It's simply not worth the wasted effort.

Something else I'll add is that you should really never, ever feed any goat free-choice bagged feed. Their primary diet needs to be browse, graze, and hay, and bagged feed should be used to supplement on an as-needed basis, according to body condition. Males get urinary calculi from an excess of phosphorus in their diet, and bagged feed is typically very high in phosphorus. Even if feed is balanced 2:1 calcium to phosphorus, too much of it can still lead to UC.

Good luck with him. Hope he pulls through for ya!

 

[cmjust0]

Also, just wanted to say that your vet seems like a good one. To be able to discern potential urinary calculi is something most "normal" vets probably couldn't do, but to go ahead and put the goat on anti-inflammatories without being asked/instructed to do so is almost unheard of. Keep this vet handy.

 

[WhiteWaterFarms]

Thanks,she gave him:
Ammonium chloride, drench @ 2x/day for one week and then 1x/day for one more week. the dose is 6ml
Dexamethasone, can't remember the dose, SQ, 1x/day for 3 days. (i think that's all that she had on the truck.) We have to call her Monday and see if he needs more.

She gave him the dex shot on Monday,started the drench, and gave him two other shots i didn't see want they were.

He drank water for the first time yesterday and we think he's "peeing" (we found wet spots, but their not bolts normal gusher pee)

Edited to add
They said we needed to catherarize him on wedsday, but it was going to be $250-300 at the vet cloeset to us. (the vet that saw him is 1 hr to 1hr and 45mins away)
So we couldnt do it, and decided to wait it out.

 

[autumnprairie]

Thanks,she gave him:
Ammonium chloride, drench @ 2x/day for one week and then 1x/day for one more week. the dose is 6ml
Dexamethasone, can't remember the dose, SQ, 1x/day for 3 days. (i think that's all that she had on the truck.) We have to call her Monday and see if he needs more.

She gave him the dex shot on Monday,started the drench, and gave him two other shots i didn't see want they were.

He drank water for the first time yesterday and we think he's "peeing" (we found wet spots, but their not bolts normal gusher pee)

Edited to add
They said we needed to catherarize him on wedsday, but it was going to be $250-300 at the vet cloeset to us. (the vet that saw him is 1 hr to 1hr and 45mins away)
So we couldnt do it, and decided to wait it out.

I ham happy to hear that he is on the mend, you haven't even really got to enjoy your new babies hopefully you will soon? Is you ND Pregnant?

 

[cmjust0]

Edited to add
They said we needed to catherarize him on wedsday, but it was going to be $250-300 at the vet cloeset to us. (the vet that saw him is 1 hr to 1hr and 45mins away)
So we couldnt do it, and decided to wait it out.

Yeah, it would have done more harm than good anyway. Male goats have a really weird anatomy in their 'crotchal region' which includes a hairpin bend.. No way to catheterize, and attempts to try usually just cause more irritation and swelling, which is ultimately a detriment. Good thing ya didn't do that.

Just FYI, he also needs to be on PenG in case this was brought on by a urinary infection (fairly common cause) and/or to prevent a secondary urinary infection from an elevated Ph and urine hanging around too long. Also, the Dex needs to probably be given for about a week. And Dex actually kills the immune system and should never be given without an accompanying antibiotic, sooo...PenG, stat!

Good to hear he's doing better!

BTW...do me a favor. Next time you talk to the vet that did all that work, ask if she gave Dex because it made sense to her or if it's something she heard or read somewhere.. So far as I know, my vet "pioneered" that strategy on a little buck I had named Frank, and I've been spreading the word ever since...and it's been working! Would be kinda cool to hear that it's making the rounds if that's what happened.. And for the record, my vet was about to turn my buck back over to me and just happened to stop and go, "Hey, ya wanna try some dexamethasone?" It was pretty much top-of-the-head idea, and very much a shot in the dark, but it did the trick!

 

[WhiteWaterFarms]

well, it got really cold and now he's not doing good.....he won't take the meds and just spits them out, and he's not moving around.
i got video of him doing the gagging or whatever it is he's doing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bku-Qf_7ox8

autumnprairie:Yeah, but i have got to see star some. she's bouncing around and has her own little play house, (a sleeping bag hanging from a wall that she goes behind.)

cmjust0:
OK, I'll ask, next week we're going to her office to see if we can get more dex shots and show her the video i got.
On the antibiotic's:
We had to take a cat to the vet(a different one) with a abscess and they gave him what the vet said was a antibiotic that stay's in the body for a week.
So when the Dr Hargis gave bolt the antibiotic's we thought it was the long lasting stuff. Would it hurt if i gave him some penG from Tsc if she did give him the other? It's the weekend or i'd call her and ask what kind of antibiotic's she gave him.

 

[WhiteWaterFarms]

is this what everyone calls penG?
http://www.tractorsupply.com/durvet-reg-pen-aqueous-100-ml-2206759