Help - new goat we found has some issues

[Emmetts Dairy]

You dont want to flood with drugs.

I've never understood this kind of thinking...

Cm,

Granted you are very helpful and knowledgeable about goats. Dont get me wrong I appreciate your input and humor your share!

But I personally feel when an imune system is compromised and you have no idea whats going on without real facts ie blood test/fecals, I wont flood my animals with drugs. I only worm when they have worms. I call my vet and find out whats going on and treat them with the proper drugs for the aliments they are having and/or worm load they are carrying. Theres nothing wrong with that???? I am not a vet and I am just not comfortable with making treatment judgement on some aspects of their care.

I also feel when an animals is sick with a compromised immune...I would not recomend vacinating them til they are well. ie Cant get a flu shot when your sick....compromised immune...it may kill you....(not saying you said that but just trying to make a point of being careful when immunes are compromised)

This is the way I feel...so its a personal choice and thankfully we still have one!!!

I hope Pippy your boy gets well soon! Good luck with your choices..whatever they may be! This is a good place to get differant points of views and make decisions that work best for you!!!

 

[pippy]

Any comments on the horse feed vs proper goat feed vs calf feed?

I don't think vacc's will come for a couple of weeks once i know what we are dealing with. And i'll have to get the vet to show me where how - I do my own horses/cattle but not comfortable doing the goat!

 

[Roll farms]

Goats need 'around' 16% protein in their feed, especially when they're growing...so whichever feed has a good calcium / phos. ration AND the higher protein % is the one I'd go with.

As far as knowing his age by his teeth...anything under 1 year will look the same, be it 2 weeks to 6 mos...only maybe a bit longer.

http://www.sleepyzfarm.com/toothchart.html

Everything I've read about selenium says that goats don't absorb it orally as well as they do when injected...so orally now, if it's all you've got, is probably better than nothing, just don't go crazy with it...but when / if you get a chance to get some from the vet, I'd still consider giving him an injection as well.

I'd happily come to NZ and help you out w/ the lil feller....send me a ticket.

(Only teasing, but I'd love to visit NZ some day.)

 

[pippy]

I recommend everyone should visit NZ if they get the chance - its a long flight, but so much to do in such a small space.

Is there anything against feeding oil (like soyabean or flaxseed oil) as I have both and they will up the protein intake. The horse feed has 11% protein off the top of my head.

I rang the local feed supply store and asked them if they knew anything of goats in general and explained the reasoning.

They seemed to think that given the season and weather we have had the skin condition is just from not having any shelter and being looked after. Recommened a Vit B shot, and given its colouring think its a wild one off the hills be left behind from mum. Said they are extremely hardy little buggers. Foot rot may be another issue - i looked at them and thought they seemed ok - but not indepth.

 

[Roll farms]

I wouldn't feed oil to a goat.... that young especially.

If he's a feral goat, then I'd imagine he'd do fine on a lower % feed....pampered dairy goats need more than a boy who's going to lose his luggage and be a pet.

That and grass hay should be plently....

I do like to add a bit of black oil sunflower seed to our goat's feed to help shine up their coats. Make sure you offer him loose mineral.

Goats aren't as prone to footrot as sheep, but again, that's just what I've read.

Best of luck to you and the little fellow.

 

[TheSheepGirl]

Our goats sometimes get horse grain and do fine, I'd go ahead and feed it.

The Ivermec was a good thing to do. It will help if he's wormy and also if he has lice or mites. I would also spray him down with fly spray or a good livestock sray to help with the mites if that is what it is.

I agree with you on not giving a ton of medictions to a goat until you know what they have. All of the goat people I know treat for every little problem and then ask later if it was alright to do.

Grain is probably better than hay when he is so young. I'd limit the hay and feed only a small bit of grain.

40cm high is a little under a foot and a half and 6mm's is like less than an inch and a half just so that everyone knows. I'm a smart American!

His size is pretty small and his horns are pretty short as well. He sounds and looks pretty young. He needs a lot of protien and fiber while he grows.

As for tethering him out, it should be fine as long as you do it right.

Tie him to a post with a loop so that it will swivel around the post instead of getting wrapped around it. I would also tie him in the middle of your yard so that there is nothing to get tangled around. You also want to use a fairly loose collar that is as low on the neck as possible to put less stress on the neck if he gets scared and bolts to the end of the line.

Tethering can be perfectly safe as long as it is done correctly and in a safe manner. He will learn to untangle himself when he runs into trouble.

I love New Zealand. I've never been, but it is a place i would like to go. I wrote a report about the endangered wildlife there. I was completely fascinated by the diversity of living things that are found there.

Not to sound stupid or stereo typed here, but have you seen a kiwi? I've heard that they are rare. They are my favorite animal and I thought I'd ask you if you'd seen any.

Your little goat is pretty cute. I love the floppy ears.

Out of curiosity how big are the ferrel goats? In terms of hieght.

 

[cmjust0]

Maybe my horse feed would be a better alterntive than calf.

Its pre-formulated with Se in it (a bit safer than direct dosing), has 2x calcium than phos.

YES! Absolutely!

We don't have alf here, its either meadow chaff or lucern (damp with molasses or dry). I'm all out of either - so its going to have to be plain hay until supply truck.

Lucerne = alfalfa. Same thing.

(I remember that because there's a car called the "Buick Lucerne," and it always struck me as odd that someone would name a car after a legume. )

As to height - if you look at the weatherboards behind it - the bottom board is a 8" board (probably about 7" exposed there), so you can gauge height a little better off that. I was taking the 40cm from the wither - but that would have been holding the goat up so the front legs were as they would be if not "bung".

Sooo, he's 16" at the withers and only has 1/4" horns? Hmm.. I would think he'd had more horn than that, but...well...either way, you're talking about a pretty good sized kid here. Almost certainly not a mini/pygmy breed..

I'll have to jump on the scales with it tonight SO will love me bringing another animal inside.

An accurate weight will be really helpful.

I'd happily come to NZ and help you out w/ the lil feller....send me a ticket.

(Only teasing, but I'd love to visit NZ some day.)

AGREED X1000.

We had a travelling vet in this area for a while who sorta specialized in goats.. Cut his teeth on goats here, then when he got good at it, he moved to Texas where there are more goats.. :/

I learned recently that his wife is actually a Kiwi and the two of them had moved back to her native NZ..

Sooo...congrats to that guy for living *my dream* I guess.

They seemed to think that given the season and weather we have had the skin condition is just from not having any shelter and being looked after. Recommened a Vit B shot

That makes sense to me, and if it's correct, it would only reinforce the argument for starting him on an antibiotic.. Rain rot's technical name is "dermatophilosis," and it's caused by a particular dermatological bacterial organism.. I had a goat who got a few little "strawberries" on her skin once and the vet recommended PenG or Tetracycline.

Like I said before, I'd probably just use PenG on this guy.

given its colouring think its a wild one off the hills be left behind from mum. Said they are extremely hardy little buggers.

That's too cool.

Foot rot may be another issue - i looked at them and thought they seemed ok - but not indepth.

If it was *rot* you'd probably know it by the smell.. Foot rot smells HORRIBLE. Now, if it's foot *scald* you may not recognize that right away. Trim the excess hoof wall down to the sole and see if that squares his foot up.. You can take off some of the sole to see if there are any pockets of infection or anything like that, but with him being so little, he's probably be quick to bleed if you took off much sole at all..

Next, check the skin on the underside of his foot, up between the claws of his feet. If you see white powdery stuff or raw looking skin, he may have foot scald. It's kinda like athlete's foot in humans..

If he's got scald -- which he may, since he's been out in the elements -- you can treat him with something you'd use on a case of thrush in horses.. Topical products containing copper napthenate (Kopertox, Pritox, etc) are my favorites, but I know of people who've had success using products like ThrushBuster, Thrush-XX, different products containing zinc sulfate, etc..

 

[cmjust0]

Cm,

Granted you are very helpful and knowledgeable about goats. Dont get me wrong I appreciate your input and humor your share!

But I personally feel when an imune system is compromised and you have no idea whats going on without real facts ie blood test/fecals, I wont flood my animals with drugs. I only worm when they have worms. I call my vet and find out whats going on and treat them with the proper drugs for the aliments they are having and/or worm load they are carrying. Theres nothing wrong with that????

Who said we had no idea what was going on? I feel like we have a pretty good idea of what's going on..



But you're right -- there's nothing wrong with going to the vet. I'm a big proponent of proper veterinary care for goats, so I totally get what you're saying.....but here's what you have to understand:

I learned a lot of my methods by paying careful attention to veterinarians and other healthcare professionals. The reality is that they're the world's worst for "trying" things until either something works or the patient dies.


Having said that, if a vet suspects that a given condition *could possibly* include -- or even just predispose the animal to -- some type of bacterial infection, they go for antibiotics. In this case, the OP said the little guy had cracks in his skin.. Even if the skin condition wasn't *caused* by bacteria, the cracks still opens him up to the risk of secondary infection -- BOOM, he gets antibiotics. Run that scenario past any vet you want...I *gaurantee* you won't find a single one who thinks an antibiotic in this situation is uncalled for.

Now...can we rule out external parasites? No, not really...not without a skin scrape. Would a vet likely recommend a scraping over a simple shot of ivermectin? Well, that all depends on the vet...if they like taking people's money every chance they get, they'll probably do the scraping. If they're pragmatic, then I doubt it...they'll just give the shot. Personally, I *appreciate* a pragmatic vet who won't demand that we run a $$$ test to determine whether to give an otherwise harmless $ shot -- just give the $ shot, please, and I'll keep my money.

Same with DiMethox...we could run a $35 fecal to determine whether or not to give $0.50 worth of Dimethox, but the reality is that lots of people raising goats -- myself included -- give DiMethox regularly as a preventative anyway. I see no reason to hold off on that for this little guy simply because we haven't run a fecal. Let's just call it a preventative and save ourselves $34.50... If it turns out he was about to go into accute coccidiosis, we just saved $34.50 *and* a baby goat. Where's the downside to that?...I don't see it.

And deworming?....good gravy....I've yet to meet a vet who knew the first thing about goats and did *not* immediately think of worms as the problem -- regardless of the symptoms. I'm pretty sure I could bring a three-legged goat to my vet and say "This goat's leg fell off, doc!!" and they'd say "Hmmm.. When was the last time you dewormed?"



I guess what I'm getting at here is that I don't think I suggested any kind of "shotgun" approach to the OP, nor do I feel like I make a habit of suggesting that people flood their goats with medication *irresponsibly.* As I typically try to do, what I suggested in this case is what I feel like my own vets would have suggested.

 

[cmjust0]

40cm high is a little under a foot and a half and 6mm's is like less than an inch and a half just so that everyone knows. I'm a smart American!

Hate to break it to ya, but....FAIL.

40cm = 15.7480315 inches and 6mm = 0.236220472 inches.

Also known as 'about 16"' and 'about 1/4"'.

 

[Emmetts Dairy]

Cm,

Granted you are very helpful and knowledgeable about goats. Dont get me wrong I appreciate your input and humor your share!

But I personally feel when an imune system is compromised and you have no idea whats going on without real facts ie blood test/fecals, I wont flood my animals with drugs. I only worm when they have worms. I call my vet and find out whats going on and treat them with the proper drugs for the aliments they are having and/or worm load they are carrying. Theres nothing wrong with that????

Who said we had no idea what was going on? I feel like we have a pretty good idea of what's going on..

But you're right -- there's nothing wrong with going to the vet. I'm a big proponent of proper veterinary care for goats, so I totally get what you're saying.....

I guess what I'm getting at here is that I don't think I suggested any kind of "shotgun" approach to the OP, nor do I feel like I make a habit of suggesting that people flood their goats with medication *irresponsibly.* As I typically try to do, what I suggested in this case is what I feel like my own vets would have suggested.

Cm, Just so you know...when I said "I would'nt flood with drugs" you did not respond to this post as of yet. So please don't take that statement as it meant for you...it definately was not. It actually had nothing to do with you!!! Its not all about you!!! LOL (Kidding) It was a generally statement. Almost a stop, look and listen before you go forward! Thats all!

That was my personal feeling about people with new "ill" goats. I dont think you give "irresponsibly" advice with drugs by any means. I was responding to your quote..when you said:

"I never understood this kind of thinking"

So I went further to explain what "that" kind of thinking meant to me. It was more to bring to light that its important to be more direct in the approach of medicating. We agree!!! LOL The OP is unfamilar with goats... so lets slow down and get the decision tree growing!!! Was my thought process in saying that...best to make some decisions about whats going on
before "Flooding."

I have read some post were people would just give and give and try so much..and I never thought that always the best approach..unless you have sound advice and expirence!

Believe me Ive had my share of bad advice...I actually listen to an old farmer who had goats for years (against my better judgement) and put cayene pepper on bleeding horn once... I learned goats are not a pot of chili!! So really...you did not have to clarify yourself at all!! I just feel its better to get a good grip on the situation (as you do) and move forward. I learned the hard way when cleaning pepper off my goat!! LOL

Its all good!! Keep on keepin on!!!

Sorry Pippy. Did'nt mean to take your post up on this!! Hope things are well for your boy!!!!!