high pitched squeek

[ridinglizzard]

We just started giving our horse beet pulp. He ate a fairly small amount this morning (about 1/4 of a 4L ice cream pail), and then started acting strange. He seemed restless, but wanted to lie down, and is holding his head low, and he kept making a high pitched sound (like the beginning of a whinny). My husband led him around the yard a couple of times and then he sneezed out some beet pulp. Now he seems better, although still not back up to par. All this has been over the past 40 minutes or so. I can think of anything new other then the beet pulp, although when we were examining him we also noticed a flattish swelling on one side of his neck that seems sensitive to the touch. He is living in our yard, so anything different or unusual we tend to notice right away. Anyone have any ideas on what his issue may be?
Thanks, Liz

 

[ridinglizzard]

You know, he seems back to normal now...
Funny.
I am thinking that I probably didn't soak the beet pulp long enough. Maybe he was having trouble getting it down.
I would still appreciate comments/input if you've had experience with these symptoms.
Thanks, Liz

 

[ducks4you]

Call your Vet. Horses cannot regurgitate, and it doesn't sound as if he was choking on it, but it DOES sound as if he inhaled some of it.) If he does not have a health problem, he could have some impaction problems, either way your Vet should check him out.

Why are you feeding beet pulp? I know that many people recommend it, but I have never fed it to any of my horses. After your horse recovers, if he needs to gain some weight, please try a bag of Purina Equine Senior. It consists of small pellets that can be watered down and fed as a mash, and has been tested to maintain and gain weight in senior horses, as well as helping younger horses to rehabilitate.

 

[sterlng&sierra]

It does sound as if your horse snorked up the beet pulp, or maybe choked on it. Beet pulp needs to soak a really long time before you feed it, and really all it does for the horse is gets some water in them. It isn't very easy to chew and has next to no nutritional value because the sugar extraction systems used for beets are much more efficient now. I'd go with a senior feed of some type; usually senior feed is pelleted and easy to water into a mush, and is also great for weight gain.

 

[goodhors]

First, let me say there are two forms of beet pulp and both need soaking before feeding to horses.

One is shredded, looks like dried leaves. This kind is very popular, soaks up the water quickly, can be fed fairly soon after mixing, especially if hot water is used. Ratio of water to shreds is about 50-50. So same amount of water and beet pulp shreds, to make it safe and edible for the horse.

Second type is beet pulp pellets. This kind takes longer to prepare, since the pellets are cooked while being extruded, so the hard coat takes longer to absorb water. Pellets need more water than shredded, we do 1/3 pellets to 2/3 water. I usually set the water and pellets to soak when the horses go outside, since they won't be coming back until the other end of the day. Winters I make morning pellet mix, summers I make evening pellet mix, to give them plenty of time to soak up the water. I run my hand thru the bucket of pellets, make sure there are no lumps left, before feeding the wet beet pulp pellet mix to my horses.

We always feed plain beet pulp, no added molasses, they don't need the extra sugar.

We add their oats and corn, selenium and Vit E, to the helping of wet beet pulp, so they eat everything at once.

And while quite a few researchers say they have no problems feeding either beet pulp type dry, I would NEVER recommend it. Despite their experiencing no problems, we personally know of a number of horses that choked on beet pulp fed dry. The shreds stick in the throat, causing the incoming food behind to pile up and choke the horse. Horses may not chew the beet pulp pellets well, and again they cause problems. We see owners get lazy, don't soak because it "takes too long" and horses need the Vet called for choke.

There are quite a few articles around about the nutritional value of beet pulp as a feed if you do a search. Here is one:

http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-health/horse-beet-pulp-13003.aspx

We have been feeding wetted beet pulp about 18 years now and really like the results on the horses. They are fit to compete but not nutcases with grain overload for the hard work demanded from them. This is with a variety of breeds of horses, in extremely physical competitions, their brains stay screwed in! They can compete at the top of their level, including Advanced, have all the energy they need on small amounts of grain. They all look excellent, great shine, bright eyes.

I do not recommend the Purina Senior anymore because of the huge amounts of sugar in the feed. Yeah the horses love it, but their bodies can't manage it in many cases. Old horses especially, unless they are fed SMALL amounts, not the recommended quantities on the bag. We see too many founders after owner switches the old horse to Purina Senior, which didn't need to happen. They go Insulin Resistant with sugar overload.

And with so much sugar, feed molds fast in humid weather, drawing moisture into the feed. Even new bags can be moldy when you open them, happened to me and others I know. Finding the mold inside, was what made me change Senior feed brands on my old horse. I went to Old Kent, lots lower in sugar. She was on diet of wet beet pulp, some Senior (NOT recommended amounts), and soaked timothy hay cubes. She did very well on that for a few years after her teeth got so bad.

So educate yourself, many myths about beet pulp feeding. It sure DOES have calories, can be a great fit for your horse feed desires.

Does sound a bit like a choke on the original post. Also breathing some in. Maybe a few days with no grain to let the sore spot repair. Do make sure wet beet pulp has no lumps before feeding. I would start with small quantities, as horse gets used to it. Same old mare was the ONLY horse I ever had trouble getting to eat it, and she was the piggy type! Took her a week or so, before she was OK with the wet texture. I just went to a couple tablespoons daily, until she was cleaning it up, then increased quantity. This was long before she had bad teeth.

 

[LauraM]

f he needs to gain some weight, please try a bag of Purina Equine Senior.

Which is beet pulp based.

I do not recommend the Purina Senior anymore because of the huge amounts of sugar in the feed. Yeah the horses love it, but their bodies can't manage it in many cases. Old horses especially, unless they are fed SMALL amounts, not the recommended quantities on the bag. We see too many founders after owner switches the old horse to Purina Senior, which didn't need to happen. They go Insulin Resistant with sugar overload.

I have to agree with this.......while the feed is beet pulp based, there is far more sugar in it (as is the case with most commercial feeds) than horses need.

You can make an excellent senior feed yourself be using beet pulp, a quality ration balancer, whole flax seed (or grind it right before feeding it), and rice bran......without having all the simple carbs and sugars.

 

[ridinglizzard]

Thank you so much for your suggestions and input. The horse in question hasn't had any issues with eating since I first posted about it (thank goodness!). We finished that bag of beet pulp, and have been trying other daily rations and supplements since (senior food, cob, various grain mixes). He is on pasture the rest of the day.

Unfortunately he is still really skinny! He is a 9 year old standardbred. He is very tall (over 17hh). His previous owner said that he was always slim and that is just normal for him, but to us he just looks too thin. We deworm him regularly, had his teeth floated this spring (and will again this fall as the vet said that he thought it would be best to do it twice this year and then annually after that since his mouth had been quite neglected), supplement his feed daily, have him on good pasture, and still he is skinny.

He seems to be a horse who goes downhill very fast... my husband took him on a weeklong pack trip and when he came home he was slimmer and is taking his time to bulk up again.

We will keep trying new things and continuing with the supplementing and try to get the weight on.

 

[goodhors]

I guess I would go back to his teeth, check them myself. I have seen teeth issues be the root cause of MANY horse issues, which surprised me a lot. Horses WERE regularly floated, attended to. While I don't have Vet initials behind my name, a lot of horse Vets are not the best at floating teeth. I also was getting them done twice a year, but he was not a good tooth guy. Once I got a GOOD tooth person, horse only needed work about every two years, even though she was checked more often.

We usually have the horse dentist (we call him the Tooth Fairy Ha-Ha) come, 30+ years of experience, but sometimes he is out of state when we need him. We do have a skilled horse Vet, who is good with teeth at those other times. They both love that our horses stand well with no sedation or restraints for their work. They both use hand tools for the job.

I am NOT a fan of power tools for the horse mouth. Seems to be the new thing in horse dentistry, but they remove a LOT in an instant. You can't put it back on if too much is removed!! Horse only has SO MUCH enamal to use for the rest of his life.

Horses need sedation for the power tools, which I don't like giving on a regular basis, especially very young or old horses. Sedation can be hard on them. Only liscensed Vets should be administering sedation or medication, not the horse dentist. Kind of like the Farrier does not give sedation shots either, not a medical professional. Farrier and Dentist should work WITH a Vet if sedation is needed.

There is also a lot of "options" the power tool folks offer, which cost extra. You get the feeling of guilt for being a "bad owner" if you don't pay and pay for the extras. Easy to have a $200+ bill with the power tool folks, on one horse!

Anyway, you can check horse mouth yourself. Halter horse and have a holder to keep him still. You reach in, pull his tongue out sideways, he won't bite down then. Holder can hold leadrope and tongue, while you use flashlight to look in open mouth. Check for points on the molars, uneven bite of front teeth (should be flat across where they meet), no corner hooks on teeth that don't meet in front. You can put hand inside a calm horse's mouth, holding tongue prevents closing to bite Then run your fingers along teeth edges beside the cheeks, make sure no points are cutting the skin inside, both on upper or lower teeth. Maybe horse has lost a tooth to a stone or broken it off. Opposite tooth may be still growing, up into hole that is left. Growth may prevent shutting the mouth or chewing smoothly.

Horse chews sideways, so molars have to slide sideways easily, to allow good mastication of hay, grain, any feedstuffs, before it passes on to the stomach and digestive system. Poorly chewed food prevents horse from getting all the nutrition benefits.

So a quick check on your own may point up some problems, or that teeth things are all FINE, so one less thing affecting his weight gain.

It is amazing the issues a good floating of teeth can resolve, regarding food use or training problems! Some of those slender built breeds just stay slender. Standardbreds are bred and built for speed at the trot or pacing. If they have a big barrel or belly, they can't go as fast. Could be genetic design or metabolism in trim build for your horse. Like some human families stay tall and slender all their lives, regardless of what they eat.

 

[w c]

It would take many months to get a horse conditioned for a week long pack trip.

It sounds like your horse got a choke. THis means some food got stuck in his esophagus (throat, meant to differentiate it from the windpipe or trachea).

When the horse 'sneezed out' some of the beet pulp, do you mean the feed came out his nostrils? Because that would be bad.

You said afterward, the horse seemed a little better but still not quite right. That can very well be because the choke was still in his throat.

A horse will sometimes resolve a choke on his own. It depends on how bad it is. If it is a bad choke the food will not break apart and soften and he will be in trouble. Through straining, coughing and trying to get it out, he can rupture his esophagus, or it may rupture later when he gets another choke.

Beet pulp (shreds) needs to be soaked 24 hours until it is very soft. The pellets often need to be soaked LONGER. Depending on how I did it sometimes I could get it to soften with an overnight soak, but some of it still was not softened if I did that. It swells a great deal so that some of it gets pushed away from the water, and it soaks up so much water, you can get it a LITTLE softened up but not enough, if you don't add enough water.

I think yiour underlying goal was to fatten up a skinny horse quickly. DON'T. Feed moderately, feed good quality food and let the horse gain weight SLOWLY, by putting on muscle and some fat, not all fat. Work and decent feed, over a few months, should make the horse look better.

Too, standardbred horses sometimes just are slimmer and rangier. You try to fatten them up so much and make them look like a breed they are not, or try to make them look like a stock horse type horse, that isn't healthy.

I am not saying to leave a horse skinny or ignore his nutrition, but to not overdo - especially if it means feeding unsoaked beet pulp, causing a choke and losing the horse.

We also have to recognize that some horses, after being starved for a long time, a very few of them just won't put on a lot of padding and cover up their ribs. Something is done to their system by the long starvation. If a horse was very severely starved, it may always have a little less fiinish over its ribs. But that is very rare, most horses, with a sensible program they will look very nice in a few months. But that really is the trick - to let it take the time it needs to get built up in a healthy way, not on extremely rich feed over a short period of time.

Keep in mind in summer, beet pulp when being soaked can actually ferment and spoil in a fairly short period of time. When it was very hot out sometimes we would put it to soak in the fridge.

If the horse needs to gain weight you might look into a concentrate with some fat inn it, ration balancer, a richer hay (but be careful not to overdo).

But you also might want to consider seriously that the horse needs to be wormed or have his teeth done by a dentist, not sure who you had do his teeth, but some people are better at it than others. Too, the horse may just not be that suitable for long pack trips. That takes a pretty special horse.

 

[ridinglizzard]

I think that partly 'skinny' is just who this horse is... especially considering that he is an off-the-track standardbred. However, most of the horses around these parts are chunky quarterhorses (and our other 3 horses are all Plup!), so it is hard to see Dude beside the others because he looks so skinny!

Please let me know what you think...

I think that his muscle tone is poor and that he is too slim. That said, his coat is nice, and his hooves (which had white line disease and severe cracks) are healed and growing nicely now, and he eats non stop. He is dewormed reguarly. His teeth were done this spring under anesthetic by a vet, and are due to be done again in October.