Hills and Horses

[ducks4you]

What are you doing when you go down the hill? If you are pulling on her mouth, you are teaching her to be heavy on the forehand to go down that hill. You are teaching her to pull. Shaking her head, she is saying LET GO. Shake didn't work, so then she bucks. She is sending you a strong message.

To go down hills you need to be in the proper position, and that is not pulling on this horses mouth.

You need to get rid of that twisted wire snaffle bit. Bits dont stop horses, and such a sever bit is doing much more harm than good. Switch to a full cheek snaffle and use your seat and legs more, not less. Ride from your seat, use your legs to steer. If you want to slow down, slow down your seat, you want to speed up, move your seat like you are walking. Going up a hill, lean forward a bit, going down a hill, lean back and put your feet forward and dont pull on your horses face, get back over her haunches and help her balance down that hill properly.

Also remember to breath. Breathing is a huge part of our riding.

You need to mentally slow down a horse, not physically. You can not do it physically. Your hands need an education, not a more sever bit. Control of a horse does not come from the bit. It comes from a partnership, a feel, trust. She isn't with you mentally.

I have to ask because of your posts with this horse. What training do you have? Do you have a mentor or a trainer? Someone who can show you things from the horses point of view? It often isnt the horse that needs the training, its the human before they get on that horse.

Sorry, but I agree with the bit change but I was always taught to use a forward half seat when going both uphill and downhill, from my original Hunt Seat Teacher. Here is why: A horse balances using their back legs when going both up and down slopes, manuevering with the back legs while supporting height with the front two legs. I did a net search for you:
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/riding-down-hills.html
"Many riders instinctively lean backward going down hills, thinking that this will help the horse. It wont. Your horse really needs his hindquarters to navigate a hill, and by leaning back you are just getting in the way. Instead, lean forward ever so slightly and keep your balance over your feet."

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/bielikov/dressage/D-B.htm

http://marvwalker.com/longeles.htm


A good way to practice is ride in a half-seat (bottom off of the saddle, bent knees, heels down and ankles operating as springs) while on the flat in a small ring. You and your horse will gain a lot of confidence, and when you finally get back on to ride downhill, it won't feel strange to you horse, either.

Hope this helps you!

 

[WesternChick]

I have to use the wire snaffle cuz other wise she dosn't listen, we used to have a full cheek snaffle but she wouldn't listen to me so we got a harsher one. she does well with this bit with everything else and I lean back when we go down hills but she always wants too gallop down its so iratating. I don't keep constant pressure on the reins. I do have a sister who is a horse trainer but the problem is that she never comes up here (she lives three hours away) cuz shes in college I learned alot from her about riding but that was just in an arena we never worked on trails. and me and my horse do everything else good together exept going down hills and the mounting issue. its so confusing

 

[ducks4you]

Don't be confused. Please understand this about horses: They are intelligent AND physical, Just like people. Horses can understand the concept, but need physical practice in order to carry it out.
Older horses take about 5x as long to Retrain than to train it right in the first place. People sell off their horses with problems. You now own a problem horse. 8 years old is way late to be training a horse to ride--lots of Olympic and internationally shown horses are 6!
If you really like him, you will have to devote the time to teach him WHAT you want him to do. ANY bucking, rearing, any running away from the bit are U N A C C E P T A B L E!!!
You should NOT ride outside of the ring until this horse is totally under your control. I suggest that your use your voice to halt your horse. Do it when you lunge. Do it when you ride AND pull the reins, then release when your horse actually halts to a slack rein, hands on neck in front of the pommel (that's the front of your saddle.) I like to say, "and...halt", so my horse knows that a command is coming. I do think your bit is too harsh, BUT, it's giving YOU some confidence, so keep it for the time being. This work is SUPER boring, but it makes push-button horses that can be trusted. You are the last chance for this horse. If you DON'T retrain her successfully, she will be on the road to slaughter. I've owned horses for almost 25 years, and I know this.

 

[Countrymom]

As hard as many think it is to retrain an older horse, let's look at this realistically. MOST horses are never trained right to begin with. Then you add in an inexperienced rider and that rider is training more bad habits. I assume you stopped trying to go down hill or even got off and or changed directions when your horse bucked with you. Probably more of a warning buck and you just trained her to get her way. This is the problem with most horses. They are smart critters and use their weight to push many humans around.....basic herd language to them. So, we can and do retrain older horses.....but usually are only sucessful when it is an experienced decent horse trainer doing the work. Not a novice.

I love the book called, "There are no problem horses, only problem riders" because it is a testimant to the fact that humans ruin horses. Then the human gets frustrated or worse yet, get injured and the horse is deemed worthless and a problem horse. Unless there were temperment issues from the very beginning most of these label horses are truly just the product of ill training from the beginning and continued.

So, being young like you are, find yourself a trainer. Work at their barn to earn lessons. Obsorb anything and everything you can and it will help you become a better rider and horse handler. Every time you handle a horse you are training that horse to respond in a manner to you that they get away with. So don't allow them to get away with illmannered actions. In oder to do that, you need a professional. And I really think an older sister in college is going to have her own life to lead at this point and little time for helping.

As for going down hill and leaning back. There can be many ideas of thought here. I personally lean back on a horse a lot and get out of the way of their ability to move. Their power and balance can indeed come from their hind quarters, but they can balance you better if you get off their shoulders. And if that horse shoots sideways spooking while you are over their shoulders headed down hill, well, when you hit the ground you will realize that you are in the wrong position. Push on the horse and put your weight into your pockets and into your heals. If the horse shoots sideways spooking the chances of you hitting the ground are way less. Your seat will be pushed into the saddle keeping you with the horse as you decend if you lean back and even go as far as pushing on the horn to keep your rump in the saddle. Just the way we ride cutting horses. I sure as you know what wouldn't be caught with my feet under me and up in the saddle as a cutting horse goes across the pen after a cow. The first turn and I would be eating dirt.

After retrainig many English riders, I understand the concepts of seat and balance that are taught in that discipline. However, if you want to ride the trails on an uncertain horse, I would bet more money on getting into the saddle and being ready to take on any movement.

 

[WesternChick]

As hard as many think it is to retrain an older horse, let's look at this realistically. MOST horses are never trained right to begin with. Then you add in an inexperienced rider and that rider is training more bad habits. I assume you stopped trying to go down hill or even got off and or changed directions when your horse bucked with you. Probably more of a warning buck and you just trained her to get her way. This is the problem with most horses. They are smart critters and use their weight to push many humans around.....basic herd language to them. So, we can and do retrain older horses.....but usually are only sucessful when it is an experienced decent horse trainer doing the work. Not a novice.

I love the book called, "There are no problem horses, only problem riders" because it is a testimant to the fact that humans ruin horses. Then the human gets frustrated or worse yet, get injured and the horse is deemed worthless and a problem horse. Unless there were temperment issues from the very beginning most of these label horses are truly just the product of ill training from the beginning and continued.

So, being young like you are, find yourself a trainer. Work at their barn to earn lessons. Obsorb anything and everything you can and it will help you become a better rider and horse handler. Every time you handle a horse you are training that horse to respond in a manner to you that they get away with. So don't allow them to get away with illmannered actions. In oder to do that, you need a professional. And I really think an older sister in college is going to have her own life to lead at this point and little time for helping.

As for going down hill and leaning back. There can be many ideas of thought here. I personally lean back on a horse a lot and get out of the way of their ability to move. Their power and balance can indeed come from their hind quarters, but they can balance you better if you get off their shoulders. And if that horse shoots sideways spooking while you are over their shoulders headed down hill, well, when you hit the ground you will realize that you are in the wrong position. Push on the horse and put your weight into your pockets and into your heals. If the horse shoots sideways spooking the chances of you hitting the ground are way less. Your seat will be pushed into the saddle keeping you with the horse as you decend if you lean back and even go as far as pushing on the horn to keep your rump in the saddle. Just the way we ride cutting horses. I sure as you know what wouldn't be caught with my feet under me and up in the saddle as a cutting horse goes across the pen after a cow. The first turn and I would be eating dirt.

After retrainig many English riders, I understand the concepts of seat and balance that are taught in that discipline. However, if you want to ride the trails on an uncertain horse, I would bet more money on getting into the saddle and being ready to take on any movement.

you sound like a pretty knowledgable person and u are right about my sister being too busy although she is coming up for a week around christamas time and shes almost finished with school.......but any how I am in 4-h and I just found out that they offer training for the horse AND the rider so i think I'll take that route and after she acted up on that one hill I made her go down it 5 nore times and the 2 last times I did it she did pretty good, still nervouse but much better than bucking. yesterday I worked with her (round penning) and I tied a bag of cans on her back cuz some times she gets scared of noises I make when I'm in the saddle and I round penned her after galloping around a few times and bucking twice she calmed down and walked around the pen without bucking rearing or bolting, such a big improvement! and I tried going down the hill in my arena (its an outdoor one and it has a hill on one side) and she did ok so i think I'm on my wqay to solving this problem! YAY!!!!!!

 

[Countrymom]

As hard as many think it is to retrain an older horse, let's look at this realistically. MOST horses are never trained right to begin with. Then you add in an inexperienced rider and that rider is training more bad habits. I assume you stopped trying to go down hill or even got off and or changed directions when your horse bucked with you. Probably more of a warning buck and you just trained her to get her way. This is the problem with most horses. They are smart critters and use their weight to push many humans around.....basic herd language to them. So, we can and do retrain older horses.....but usually are only sucessful when it is an experienced decent horse trainer doing the work. Not a novice.

I love the book called, "There are no problem horses, only problem riders" because it is a testimant to the fact that humans ruin horses. Then the human gets frustrated or worse yet, get injured and the horse is deemed worthless and a problem horse. Unless there were temperment issues from the very beginning most of these label horses are truly just the product of ill training from the beginning and continued.

So, being young like you are, find yourself a trainer. Work at their barn to earn lessons. Obsorb anything and everything you can and it will help you become a better rider and horse handler. Every time you handle a horse you are training that horse to respond in a manner to you that they get away with. So don't allow them to get away with illmannered actions. In oder to do that, you need a professional. And I really think an older sister in college is going to have her own life to lead at this point and little time for helping.

As for going down hill and leaning back. There can be many ideas of thought here. I personally lean back on a horse a lot and get out of the way of their ability to move. Their power and balance can indeed come from their hind quarters, but they can balance you better if you get off their shoulders. And if that horse shoots sideways spooking while you are over their shoulders headed down hill, well, when you hit the ground you will realize that you are in the wrong position. Push on the horse and put your weight into your pockets and into your heals. If the horse shoots sideways spooking the chances of you hitting the ground are way less. Your seat will be pushed into the saddle keeping you with the horse as you decend if you lean back and even go as far as pushing on the horn to keep your rump in the saddle. Just the way we ride cutting horses. I sure as you know what wouldn't be caught with my feet under me and up in the saddle as a cutting horse goes across the pen after a cow. The first turn and I would be eating dirt.

After retrainig many English riders, I understand the concepts of seat and balance that are taught in that discipline. However, if you want to ride the trails on an uncertain horse, I would bet more money on getting into the saddle and being ready to take on any movement.

you sound like a pretty knowledgable person and u are right about my sister being too busy although she is coming up for a week around christamas time and shes almost finished with school.......but any how I am in 4-h and I just found out that they offer training for the horse AND the rider so i think I'll take that route and after she acted up on that one hill I made her go down it 5 nore times and the 2 last times I did it she did pretty good, still nervouse but much better than bucking. yesterday I worked with her (round penning) and I tied a bag of cans on her back cuz some times she gets scared of noises I make when I'm in the saddle and I round penned her after galloping around a few times and bucking twice she calmed down and walked around the pen without bucking rearing or bolting, such a big improvement! and I tried going down the hill in my arena (its an outdoor one and it has a hill on one side) and she did ok so i think I'm on my wqay to solving this problem! YAY!!!!!!

Please go get that training started and stop putting you and your horse in a dangerous situation. Being a Mom of three kids I can just imagine my reaction if I had found a horse with a bag of cans tied to them. I beg you for your safety and that of your horse, get that professional help before you do any more period.

 

[allenacres]

And the logic behind tying cans to her is?

 

[big brown horse]

I've seen some old cowboys tie empty milk jugs to the saddle too and turn the horse out into the round pen as sort of a "sacking out" procedure. I think it is considered old fashioned these days. I never did it with any of my horses. I've seen a lot of strange things done with horses back when "breaking" rather than "training" them was the protocol.

 

[Countrymom]

I've seen some old cowboys tie empty milk jugs to the saddle too and turn the horse out into the round pen as sort of a "sacking out" procedure. I think it is considered old fashioned these days. I never did it with any of my horses. I've seen a lot of strange things done with horses back when "breaking" rather than "training" them was the protocol.

And these methods are used by people who really do not know what they are doing and so happens the accidents. I am one that has used boat bumpers and do on occasion still to aide a horse in allowing things to bump their sides. However, I sure wouldn't let my son who is 8 do so with a horse because he doesn't have a clue why to use them. He also can ride pretty darn good, but he isn't able to train right now. There is a time and a place for everything you do with a horse. And knowing what you are doing is the biggest difference in a healthy mind and body of both you and your horses.

Western Chick, I do not mean to sound like I am scolding you or being mean. I seriously worry about people doing things that are beyond their experience because I see so many people and horses get injuried. If you were to get seriously hurt or even hurt your horse, it would be a life altering event. So please, get professional help immediately and do things smartly and safely with your horse. And I do not believe your sister is that help.

 

[WesternChick]

I'm getting profecional help through my 4-h club and the logic of tying a bag of cans is so there not scared of noises coming off there back and I totaly desencitized her to noise on her back so it served its perpose ( and I was outside the pen the whole time so there + my dad was watching me so if things got out of hand he was there to help). I'm gonna start my training program through 4-h next spring cuz the people who do it leave during winter.