Horns vs. No horns. What do you like best?

[SkyWarrior]

What do you guys think about putting tennis balls on the goats' horns? Are there downsides to that approach besides looking silly?

If I got 2x4" no climb fencing, then it seems like goat heads couldn't get through and get stuck. And it seems like with the tennis balls, nobody could get gouged. Is there anything I'm overlooking?

I don't have goats yet but would like to have dairy goats in the future, and am trying to figure out what I will do when the time comes. I have no interest in showing my goats or any other livestock for that matter, so that would not be an issue for me.

I don't know how effective that would be, mainly because the other goats might take them off.

I do have goats with horns. After one round of disbudding (that didn't take anyway), I decided it was too nasty to do. My opinion.

 

[Amina]

That's exactly my feeling, SkyWarrior. So either I will be having goats with horns, or getting them sedated for the disbudding procedure. I'm just trying to figure out if there are ways to mitigate the risks of having horns... if changes in management style can mitigate the risks, then I'll just have horns on my goats.

I've heard of folks using duct tape to make sure the tennis balls stay on. I like the idea, but wondered if others have tried this.

 

[OneFineAcre]

That's exactly my feeling, SkyWarrior. So either I will be having goats with horns, or getting them sedated for the disbudding procedure. I'm just trying to figure out if there are ways to mitigate the risks of having horns... if changes in management style can mitigate the risks, then I'll just have horns on my goats.

I've heard of folks using duct tape to make sure the tennis balls stay on. I like the idea, but wondered if others have tried this.

Hate to throw you a curve here but there are risks associated with sedating young animals
It's the thing about owning goats I hate doing the most but we do ours ourselves without sedation
We had 19 kids this year so no way to get a vet out when they are born over 2 months
And out of those only one bad job because we waited too long to do it
@Southern by choice could probably give some insight
She didn't disbud at all at first, then would only do it with. Vet sedating, but I believe now does it herself so with her experience with goats her thoughts evolved on the issue

 

[Amina]

Yep, I know there are risks to sedation, so I am really hoping to mitigate risks to having horns, instead.

 

[OneFineAcre]

Yep, I know there are risks to sedation, so I am really hoping to mitigate risks to having horns, instead.

There is no right or wrong
You have to do what you feel is best for your situation

 

[SkyWarrior]

Some considerations:

Scurs can be nasty. I took a doe who had to be put down because the former owner's veterinarian said there was no way to remove the scur without her bleeding out. The scur was growing into her skull. We had many good meals from that doe, but I'm sure the owner would have preferred a live doe.

My own buck, Oreo, has had scurs that grow wildly and curl around his head. Occasionally, they break and bleed for hours. Nasty stuff.

I understand that people who disbud correctly don't have problems with scurs. But I feel that enough people who don't do it right are disbudding. Yeah, maybe someday they will do it right on their kids, but how many have to have problems? I've had a few does that have had no or minimal scurs. And I've had goats with horrible scurs. I personally just don't feel competent enough to disbud even with the right equipment.

I've only done disbudding once and the disbudding didn't take. All the disbudded goats had their horns without issues (no scurs -- just horns). I did everything right, it stunk to high heaven, and it caused a lot of discomfort for the kids. I was pro disbudding before that.

 

[Amina]

Thanks, SkyWarrior. That's definitely something to think about. Scurs sound pretty awful. I would definitely hate to put a goat the disbudding process and not have it done right...

I'm also wondering if a lot of the risks from horns could be mitigated by good breeding. For example, I'm used to chickens, and I would never breed from a rooster that was aggressive toward me or the hens. I wonder if you could mitigate a lot of the problem with goats by breeding from goats that don't try to use their horns aggressively to humans or other goats.

Maybe I should make a point of buying goats from people who successfully manage theirs with horns. The genetics might favor a gentler goat.

 

[norseofcourse]

Hope y'all don't mind a sheep person weighing in

My breed (Icelandic) comes both horned and polled. I definitely prefer polled. I have one ewe that is horned, and that's mainly because she was over a week old before her horns became obvious, and by then I was attached

Disbudding, if done correctly, lasts a couple of minutes for the worst part, and a couple weeks of healing. An animal with horns will have them its whole life. So you always have to consider fencing, handling and any other issues with horns for their entire life. And if you can't keep that animal its whole life, will it be harder to sell with horns?

I admit, some horns look really impressive. And some people say they make a nice handle to hold an animal by. My horned ewe, Brosa, doesn't get aggressive with her horns, but I can't use certain kinds of fencing, and I know there's always a chance she might get caught somewhere when I'm not around.

If I ever got goats, would I have them disbudded? Yes, if I could find someone experienced and very good, or if by then, there are other disbudding methods that work well. Doubt I could do it myself, tho.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Thanks, SkyWarrior. That's definitely something to think about. Scurs sound pretty awful. I would definitely hate to put a goat the disbudding process and not have it done right...

I'm also wondering if a lot of the risks from horns could be mitigated by good breeding. For example, I'm used to chickens, and I would never breed from a rooster that was aggressive toward me or the hens. I wonder if you could mitigate a lot of the problem with goats by breeding from goats that don't try to use their horns aggressively to humans or other goats.

Maybe I should make a point of buying goats from people who successfully manage theirs with horns. The genetics might favor a gentler goat.

Most goats don't try to hurt people with their horns. I can't tell you how many times I have ended up with nasty bruises because something startled a goat. Whenever you bend over on kneel down to pet your goats you are risking an eye, again the goat isn't trying to be mean but all it take is one flinch and you could loose an eye. If you are bringing a bale of hay of a bucket of feed the goats WILL run over to you and swarm around your legs......a goat moves its head and that horn goes into your leg.

My neighbor was given a goat, very sweet and gentle, because he got spooked by something and ended up taking a boys eye.

 

[Ridgetop]

My personal (stress here in PERSONAL) experience is that horned goats are dangerous to young children and other animals. I was taking care of some pygmy goats for a friend and one of the goats tossed its head and hooked by in the leg. I have had horned goats (Boers) get hung up in feeders and fences. One pulled a large 8' 2 sided metal pasture feeder over onto herself, getting trapped with another goat underneath it. It took two of us to get it up with her thrashing in it so we could get her out of it. Horned goats do not butt each other like disbudded goats do, they try to hook each other with a sidewise motion of their heads. There are enough stories out there about horses and ponies with bellies ripped open, udders torn open, animals caught in fencing and hanging until they died, etc. That does not even address the fact that horns are at eye height for young children.
My children had horses that were lovable, gentle animals - they fell off sometimes. Our goats were adorable and loving, they could knock small children down and twist around till your fingers were bruised just holding into their collars.
We had dairy goats first. We learned to disbud properly from an older man who had bred dairy goats for show for many years. We never had scurs. When he stopped doing it for us after a couple of years we bought his old disbudding iron. It burns hotter than the modern ones so you don't have to leave it on the kid as long. The trick is to burn out the root, and I think that most people are squeamish about doing it. They snatch the iron off as soon as the kid starts screaming. The kid will scream in the disbudding box anyway, so you have to steel yourself to just do the job. Not burning long enough or doing it right will definitely allow scurs to grow. The smell of burning hair is worse so we used to shave off the area around the horn buds first. My son took over the disbudding when he was 14 and he never had a scur either. We did all the kids for our 4-H project kids for 15 years and never had one get sick, die or suffer any ill effects at all. If you are afraid of infection, give a tetanus shot first. We sprayed disinfectant on the bud scars afterwards too. The goat kid feels nothing after the first minute but screams because it is confined. As soon as it is out of the box, cuddled a minute and given a bottle, it is wagging its tail and jumping around. We disbudded the buck kids first, to practice each season, before doing the girls who were the keepers.
We also had Boers. We disbudded our meat kids and stopped showing when they were required to have horns. Our sheep are polled. The skull is designed to be able to butt without injury to the animal. A disbudded or polled animal can knock a large dog head over heels. They do not need horns for protection.
When we castrate, we band. Again we give a tetanus shot first. We only band the meat kids and wethers that we are raising to sell at 6-8 months for meat. We have eaten uncastrated yearlings and the meat if fine. The idea behind castrating is that I don't want a lot of horny young 6 months old bucks and rams running around my place. Also, while entires will grow faster - they are putting the growth into framework, not meat. Wethers put the growth into a meatier carcass so I would rather eat a shorter meatier animal that was castrated than a tall leaner animal. The eception is when we send our young buck kids to the auction at 2 months old. We get rid of them early to avoid having to waste milk on them (buck kids in a dairy operation are a by-product) and ethnic buyers want them uncastrated for ethnic reasons, They are also buying them as BBQ goats too.
Whether you disbud, castrate, or follow any other animal husbandry procedure is your own decision. Tennis balls will not solve the problem of horns on goats. They will come off, or be chewed off by herdmates, which can cause other vet problems for you. If you want to keep goats with horns bite the bullet, live with the problems and deal with them. If you don't want horns, learn how to properly disbud. It makes life a lot easier and safer in my opinion but you have to suit yourself. What are you willing to put up with?