How can I tell that my mare is ready to breed??

[Rachel.And.Yue]

My mare is a silent heat one. I have had her now thirteen years and only seen evidence of heat twice. Shes an alpha, one that would smack the stallion up good if she didnt like him. I have seen her knock a hoof sized hole in plywood when she was displeased. her hoof makes two of a light horse.... I am SO a fan of AI for the safety for both horses. I have had horses now 47 years bred one once. Wont do it again.

There are too many horses being dumped at feed lots then shipped to Mexico for slaughter because of lack of responsible breeding and or homes. I wont get on my soap box there.

deb

When a mare is violent with a stallion like that I would NEVER risk pasture breeding and most likely not even in hand breeding unless she can be prevented from harming the stallion somehow.

AI does work great for horses like that, can be costly but think about it this way: How much would it cost you, emotionally or financially if your stallion (or someone elses) was hurt because of your mare? I wouldn't risk it.

I highly recommend having a vet help you, or an experienced breeder, if you cannot tell when your mare is in heat. And I am sure most people agree with me (and Deb) about not breeding your mare unless you are prepared for everything. I personally would not breed a mare unless I knew that I would be able to take care of the foal properly for it's whole life. That includes the costs of training, feed, etc...Think of having to take care of one more horse but WORSE. That is how it is with foals. They take more time and usually more money in order to mature into a happy, healthy horse.

Just needed to explain that as in my area there are SOOO many "backyard" breeders and too many horses needing homes (mostly foals and untrained adults). The less people breeding just to have a foal, the better.

Did I miss anything important?


Rachel

Nailed it....

My mare is a purebred Percheron with papers that go back to Cloentharp which was the ManOWar of Percheron foundation stock. I would not breed her. She doesn't fit the criteria for Conformation excellence and type to justify breeding her... The stallion I would prefer to breed her to if I were to choose to would cost more than 5000 for Pop in a can and AI. Some of those big boys are Stunning. Foals fetch upwards to 10K in the right venue. Much More if you get some show wins in and some training on. Not tempting in the least.

The mare I bred was Standard-bred Kind of lanky Had a nice fast trot but was a ground pounder..... dressage helped with that.... I should NOT have bred her. I bred her to an Arab stallion. The foal was wonderful Not outstanding conformation..... I rode and drove the heck out of him for twelve years I was prepared to keep him forever and I did keep him all his life. That was thirty years ago.

I saw the Arab market get saturated in the seventies and eighties..... Good well bred Desert bred foals sold to meat buyers.... tore my heart out. Then a few months after I bought my Percheron. I found out the market was getting flooded by PMU foals. Bred only because their Percheron moms produced premarin. The urine collected while they made their babies standing in stalls where they were hooked up to tubes to collect. The foal was a byproduct to be disposed of. Some were weaned the day they were loaded on cattle trucks to take them to the feedlot. Thank goodness that market has collapsed in the US.

No... breeding should be done with due diligence careful analysis and a plan for the future of the horse you are going to produce. There are too many good horses out there that need good knowledgeable homes. Like you said Rachel.

deb

Deb,

I am glad to see a responsible breeder stating her own two cents. A responsible breeder considers everything when breeding. Conformation, bloodlines, the current market and of course your own financial situation.

I will be honest and say that I would probably never pay 5000 for one breeding...not unless I had a client already lined up (with a signed contract gone over by a lawyer), and the stallion is absolutely amazing for the mare. Getting 10,000 for the foal when you paid 5000 for the breeding might not be so bad IF the costs of keeping the mare healthy and vet fees did not take up the rest. But it is still unlikely that I would do it even with a client waiting. $5000 is a lot to spend in one go.

I love how you willingly kept your arab x standardbred for his entire life. That takes true dedication and love for the horse. Plus I bet he was a good horse. The arab x STBs that I have seen have all seemed like great horses and athletic. I thought of doing that cross and would have if our mare had not been sold. She had amazing conformation and would have crossed nicely with my own stallion. That was 5 years ago when the market was a bit better. But when doing crosses the breeder should always know what both horses produce when bred pure first. That way they know what they usually throw and can plan from there.

It is sad to see how it is these days. Horses for sale everywhere, MANY being given away or sent to auction. I have seen two herds of Straight Egyptian Arabians being given away within less then a year. One herd was from the oldest Egyptian breeding program in Canada. I almost took two mares from them but to get them home would have cost me over $1600. At the time I did not have that kind of cash on hand since I purchased a round pen for training right before I saw the ad.

PMU foals...so glad the market for that has crashed. I know some people that adopted some PMU foals and they turned out to be great horses but it was a cruel way to breed and care for horses...

But even if you have a mare that has a great personality or some other trait like that (like color), does not mean you should breed her. There are a few people around here that do that. For example: there is a lady that worked with my stallion briefly that bred her clyde stud to her morgan mare. Why? Because she has two horses that are her best lesson horses and they are clyde x morgan....this same lady bred her paint stallion to the rest of her mares...breeds range from morgan to standardbred. The result? She wound up with about 8 foals, only barely halter trained, that she could not seem to sell. Last time I talked to her she said she might have to send them to auction because she could not afford their hay and did not have the time to train them.

The moral of my posts:
Breed Responsibly And You Will Be Rewarded With Something Great.
Hope my comments make sense.

Rachel

 

[perchie.girl]

When a mare is violent with a stallion like that I would NEVER risk pasture breeding and most likely not even in hand breeding unless she can be prevented from harming the stallion somehow.

AI does work great for horses like that, can be costly but think about it this way: How much would it cost you, emotionally or financially if your stallion (or someone elses) was hurt because of your mare? I wouldn't risk it.

I highly recommend having a vet help you, or an experienced breeder, if you cannot tell when your mare is in heat. And I am sure most people agree with me (and Deb) about not breeding your mare unless you are prepared for everything. I personally would not breed a mare unless I knew that I would be able to take care of the foal properly for it's whole life. That includes the costs of training, feed, etc...Think of having to take care of one more horse but WORSE. That is how it is with foals. They take more time and usually more money in order to mature into a happy, healthy horse.

Just needed to explain that as in my area there are SOOO many "backyard" breeders and too many horses needing homes (mostly foals and untrained adults). The less people breeding just to have a foal, the better.

Did I miss anything important?


Rachel

Nailed it....

My mare is a purebred Percheron with papers that go back to Cloentharp which was the ManOWar of Percheron foundation stock. I would not breed her. She doesn't fit the criteria for Conformation excellence and type to justify breeding her... The stallion I would prefer to breed her to if I were to choose to would cost more than 5000 for Pop in a can and AI. Some of those big boys are Stunning. Foals fetch upwards to 10K in the right venue. Much More if you get some show wins in and some training on. Not tempting in the least.

The mare I bred was Standard-bred Kind of lanky Had a nice fast trot but was a ground pounder..... dressage helped with that.... I should NOT have bred her. I bred her to an Arab stallion. The foal was wonderful Not outstanding conformation..... I rode and drove the heck out of him for twelve years I was prepared to keep him forever and I did keep him all his life. That was thirty years ago.

I saw the Arab market get saturated in the seventies and eighties..... Good well bred Desert bred foals sold to meat buyers.... tore my heart out. Then a few months after I bought my Percheron. I found out the market was getting flooded by PMU foals. Bred only because their Percheron moms produced premarin. The urine collected while they made their babies standing in stalls where they were hooked up to tubes to collect. The foal was a byproduct to be disposed of. Some were weaned the day they were loaded on cattle trucks to take them to the feedlot. Thank goodness that market has collapsed in the US.

No... breeding should be done with due diligence careful analysis and a plan for the future of the horse you are going to produce. There are too many good horses out there that need good knowledgeable homes. Like you said Rachel.

deb

Deb,

I am glad to see a responsible breeder stating her own two cents. A responsible breeder considers everything when breeding. Conformation, bloodlines, the current market and of course your own financial situation.

I will be honest and say that I would probably never pay 5000 for one breeding...not unless I had a client already lined up (with a signed contract gone over by a lawyer), and the stallion is absolutely amazing for the mare. Getting 10,000 for the foal when you paid 5000 for the breeding might not be so bad IF the costs of keeping the mare healthy and vet fees did not take up the rest. But it is still unlikely that I would do it even with a client waiting. $5000 is a lot to spend in one go.

I love how you willingly kept your arab x standardbred for his entire life. That takes true dedication and love for the horse. Plus I bet he was a good horse. The arab x STBs that I have seen have all seemed like great horses and athletic. I thought of doing that cross and would have if our mare had not been sold. She had amazing conformation and would have crossed nicely with my own stallion. That was 5 years ago when the market was a bit better. But when doing crosses the breeder should always know what both horses produce when bred pure first. That way they know what they usually throw and can plan from there.

It is sad to see how it is these days. Horses for sale everywhere, MANY being given away or sent to auction. I have seen two herds of Straight Egyptian Arabians being given away within less then a year. One herd was from the oldest Egyptian breeding program in Canada. I almost took two mares from them but to get them home would have cost me over $1600. At the time I did not have that kind of cash on hand since I purchased a round pen for training right before I saw the ad.

PMU foals...so glad the market for that has crashed. I know some people that adopted some PMU foals and they turned out to be great horses but it was a cruel way to breed and care for horses...

But even if you have a mare that has a great personality or some other trait like that (like color), does not mean you should breed her. There are a few people around here that do that. For example: there is a lady that worked with my stallion briefly that bred her clyde stud to her morgan mare. Why? Because she has two horses that are her best lesson horses and they are clyde x morgan....this same lady bred her paint stallion to the rest of her mares...breeds range from morgan to standardbred. The result? She wound up with about 8 foals, only barely halter trained, that she could not seem to sell. Last time I talked to her she said she might have to send them to auction because she could not afford their hay and did not have the time to train them.

The moral of my posts:
Breed Responsibly And You Will Be Rewarded With Something Great.
Hope my comments make sense.

Rachel

I think we are hijacking this thread somewhat. It had been quiet for some time though. LOL.

I was twenty one when I bred my Standardbred mare (no papers) to a very nice Desert bred Arab stallion. in 1976 the stud fee was 100 bucks. Marki Was Athletic compact yet had alot of size and bone I picked him because he had those qualities my mare was missing. Energy flash and heart.... My Marc had all his daddies qualities and his mommas trot. I broke him to harness with the help of my Dressage trainer and we were partners for all his life. I rode dressage, jumped a little, Pulled a ratty ole Sears and Roebuck cart all over the mountains. We could even go down a paved road and have a double dump semi truck pass us with only a bit of a shudder from him.... in harness. He was a liesure suit larry at the barn if someone had carrots.... I lost him to Cancer in 91. Too short of a time.

When I decided to get back into horses I wanted a horse primarily for driving. I bought Katee almost sight unseen off the internet.... Woah.... Yep. She was bought as a long one year from a big hitch barn that had bought her as a weanling from a breeder in Idaho. Her online photo made her look like an old time Morgan.... Loved it. Bought her as a six year old untrained pasture ornament. They had bought her to breed with Paints to make Pinto drafts. Which were pretty new at the time. Only problem is they raised her with a younger stallion. She taught him to be a good boy... LOL. As a long one year old she was fifteen hands. By the time she was done growing she was seventeen one and about eighteen hundred pounds. Not a good match for owners 14.3 Paint bloodlines. So they put thirty days western training on her and put her up for sale.

This again while their original intent was flawed they did right by her by searching out a buyer that would appreciate her train her well and love her for ever. While I can only claim three of those. Turns out My Assumption that If I could train an Arab to be a good driving horse a Percheron would be easy peasy. Shes twenty now still green broke. When I finally hired a trainer she turned out to be an OUTSTANDING riding horse, She took to driving and pulling heavy things like a duck to water. But in the process of my handling her she learned how powerful she was. She has a home with me for life.... I would not want anyone but a Full on Draft horse trainer to buy her. My riding and driving days are done.

deb

 

[Rachel.And.Yue]

Nailed it....

My mare is a purebred Percheron with papers that go back to Cloentharp which was the ManOWar of Percheron foundation stock. I would not breed her. She doesn't fit the criteria for Conformation excellence and type to justify breeding her... The stallion I would prefer to breed her to if I were to choose to would cost more than 5000 for Pop in a can and AI. Some of those big boys are Stunning. Foals fetch upwards to 10K in the right venue. Much More if you get some show wins in and some training on. Not tempting in the least.

The mare I bred was Standard-bred Kind of lanky Had a nice fast trot but was a ground pounder..... dressage helped with that.... I should NOT have bred her. I bred her to an Arab stallion. The foal was wonderful Not outstanding conformation..... I rode and drove the heck out of him for twelve years I was prepared to keep him forever and I did keep him all his life. That was thirty years ago.

I saw the Arab market get saturated in the seventies and eighties..... Good well bred Desert bred foals sold to meat buyers.... tore my heart out. Then a few months after I bought my Percheron. I found out the market was getting flooded by PMU foals. Bred only because their Percheron moms produced premarin. The urine collected while they made their babies standing in stalls where they were hooked up to tubes to collect. The foal was a byproduct to be disposed of. Some were weaned the day they were loaded on cattle trucks to take them to the feedlot. Thank goodness that market has collapsed in the US.

No... breeding should be done with due diligence careful analysis and a plan for the future of the horse you are going to produce. There are too many good horses out there that need good knowledgeable homes. Like you said Rachel.

deb

Deb,

I am glad to see a responsible breeder stating her own two cents. A responsible breeder considers everything when breeding. Conformation, bloodlines, the current market and of course your own financial situation.

I will be honest and say that I would probably never pay 5000 for one breeding...not unless I had a client already lined up (with a signed contract gone over by a lawyer), and the stallion is absolutely amazing for the mare. Getting 10,000 for the foal when you paid 5000 for the breeding might not be so bad IF the costs of keeping the mare healthy and vet fees did not take up the rest. But it is still unlikely that I would do it even with a client waiting. $5000 is a lot to spend in one go.

I love how you willingly kept your arab x standardbred for his entire life. That takes true dedication and love for the horse. Plus I bet he was a good horse. The arab x STBs that I have seen have all seemed like great horses and athletic. I thought of doing that cross and would have if our mare had not been sold. She had amazing conformation and would have crossed nicely with my own stallion. That was 5 years ago when the market was a bit better. But when doing crosses the breeder should always know what both horses produce when bred pure first. That way they know what they usually throw and can plan from there.

It is sad to see how it is these days. Horses for sale everywhere, MANY being given away or sent to auction. I have seen two herds of Straight Egyptian Arabians being given away within less then a year. One herd was from the oldest Egyptian breeding program in Canada. I almost took two mares from them but to get them home would have cost me over $1600. At the time I did not have that kind of cash on hand since I purchased a round pen for training right before I saw the ad.

PMU foals...so glad the market for that has crashed. I know some people that adopted some PMU foals and they turned out to be great horses but it was a cruel way to breed and care for horses...

But even if you have a mare that has a great personality or some other trait like that (like color), does not mean you should breed her. There are a few people around here that do that. For example: there is a lady that worked with my stallion briefly that bred her clyde stud to her morgan mare. Why? Because she has two horses that are her best lesson horses and they are clyde x morgan....this same lady bred her paint stallion to the rest of her mares...breeds range from morgan to standardbred. The result? She wound up with about 8 foals, only barely halter trained, that she could not seem to sell. Last time I talked to her she said she might have to send them to auction because she could not afford their hay and did not have the time to train them.

The moral of my posts:
Breed Responsibly And You Will Be Rewarded With Something Great.
Hope my comments make sense.

Rachel

I think we are hijacking this thread somewhat. It had been quiet for some time though. LOL.

I was twenty one when I bred my Standardbred mare (no papers) to a very nice Desert bred Arab stallion. in 1976 the stud fee was 100 bucks. Marki Was Athletic compact yet had alot of size and bone I picked him because he had those qualities my mare was missing. Energy flash and heart.... My Marc had all his daddies qualities and his mommas trot. I broke him to harness with the help of my Dressage trainer and we were partners for all his life. I rode dressage, jumped a little, Pulled a ratty ole Sears and Roebuck cart all over the mountains. We could even go down a paved road and have a double dump semi truck pass us with only a bit of a shudder from him.... in harness. He was a liesure suit larry at the barn if someone had carrots.... I lost him to Cancer in 91. Too short of a time.

When I decided to get back into horses I wanted a horse primarily for driving. I bought Katee almost sight unseen off the internet.... Woah.... Yep. She was bought as a long one year from a big hitch barn that had bought her as a weanling from a breeder in Idaho. Her online photo made her look like an old time Morgan.... Loved it. Bought her as a six year old untrained pasture ornament. They had bought her to breed with Paints to make Pinto drafts. Which were pretty new at the time. Only problem is they raised her with a younger stallion. She taught him to be a good boy... LOL. As a long one year old she was fifteen hands. By the time she was done growing she was seventeen one and about eighteen hundred pounds. Not a good match for owners 14.3 Paint bloodlines. So they put thirty days western training on her and put her up for sale.

This again while their original intent was flawed they did right by her by searching out a buyer that would appreciate her train her well and love her for ever. While I can only claim three of those. Turns out My Assumption that If I could train an Arab to be a good driving horse a Percheron would be easy peasy. Shes twenty now still green broke. When I finally hired a trainer she turned out to be an OUTSTANDING riding horse, She took to driving and pulling heavy things like a duck to water. But in the process of my handling her she learned how powerful she was. She has a home with me for life.... I would not want anyone but a Full on Draft horse trainer to buy her. My riding and driving days are done.

deb

LOL I noticed that we were the only posters and felt kinda bad. I do not mean to rant about breeding and such, and I definitely do not mean to take over this topic. Just saw the thread when I joined and had to insert my own opinion just in case the topic starter still needed help.

Your boy sounded like the perfect horse to me. Our STB mare was/is an amazing girl and barely spooked at anything. Got her as a green broke mare but was still able to ride her down a busy road. My own stallion (SE arabian) is green broke but so far he has proven to be a very smart horse and a quick learner. I sent him to a trainer after I had done all the ground work, just because I knew that if I messed up when getting on him that he would remember forever. He is my first horse, bought him when I was 14 and he was a weanling, have been the only one working with him until this one trainer. I also have an arabian mare that her only quirk is that she hates cattle. Otherwise she is the perfect horse. Your Marc sounds like he inherited the good qualities of both breeds.

Katee sounds like a great horse but I usually like the horses that are a challenge to ride (ie. know they are strong and try to use it to their advantage). I have always wanted a percheron. I have worked with Percherons and ridden them but sadly never owned one. I live down the road from a beautiful grey, 18hh Percheron mare, and would buy her in a heart beat. There are also a bunch of breeders in the area that breed black driving Percherons. I doubt any of them have ever ridden them.

I hope you have many years yet with Katee. I know from personal experience how hard it is to lose a special horse.

Rachel