how do you guys like my new show heifer

[Symphony]

Thank you guys for all the comments on her. I hope she makes a good heifer!

Oh, and your heifer is nice. With a little TLC she should do fine at the fair.

 

[cedarcurve]

Black Baldies are cool but you have to breed an Angus bull to the Hereford cow because if you do it the other way around the Angus cows might not be able to birth the calf because of the large head size. Herefords have huge heads so it can make it difficult. I know someone who knows a guy and he lost 23 of his 25 Angus cows that way. They died giving birth.

Um, I would stick with Goats. I've never heard of Angus or Herefords having trouble birthing eithers calves unless the birth weight is going to be high and its a new mother. Its usually Charolais bred to Angus or Hereford that problems happen.

If I were going to start over, and raise strictly commercial cattle- I would take Herf cows- breed them to Angus bulls-- to make black baldy-- or as our OP says black herf. I then would take those F1 daughters, and breed them to Char bulls. That is my ideal 3 way cross.

While the Char breed is an exotic, or non-British breed, that doesn't make them a knock off hard calving breed. While I'm not a Char person, with one day's searching, I could find an entire page of calving ease Char bulls to use on my heifers, and I bet I could find at least 2 or 3 of them that I would breed to my Jersey heifers and not worry about them. Again, i state the differences b/w a breed's population is, or can be as great as b/w different breeds. One of the smallest heifer calves I've ever had born here was sired by a club calf Smoke F1 Char/ Maine bull.

Problems occur b/c producers don't care about what they select, buy, and use. These people just have cows, and just want calves. Some even go to the salebarn and buy their bulls- they buy a white bull, and call him char-- then when his calving is a disaster, they gripe... Why do you think the bull was at the sale barn in the first place? and it's a good chance he could be a Belgium blue.

Now there's a breed that I won't argue about being hard calving on nearly every cow you breed one to.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Black Baldies are cool but you have to breed an Angus bull to the Hereford cow because if you do it the other way around the Angus cows might not be able to birth the calf because of the large head size. Herefords have huge heads so it can make it difficult. I know someone who knows a guy and he lost 23 of his 25 Angus cows that way. They died giving birth.

I think I would disagree...I don't think it makes any difference which way you cross them, as some Herefords don't have the big ol' pallet heads. The one guy you mention must've either made a really poor choice in bull selection (i.e., really high birth-weight EPD that he didn't see or should've seen but didn't) or something was wrong with his cows. There are a lot of producers who put Hereford bulls on Angus cows and of those producers I've never heard of anything like that happen before.

As matter of fact I'm sure you can get the same problem with Angus bulls on Hereford cows. Angus bulls with very low calving ease numbers and high birth weights would make it hard for a Hereford cow to give birth.

I'm just playing the Devil's Advocate here but you can't let one freak accident story make you think that it's common or the same thing will or did happen with every other herd in the country or continent or heck even world.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I am simply saying that that has happened. It is not the weight of the calves but the size of their head. Most Herefords have much larger heads that most of breeds of cattle. I do not know about the experience of the cattle breeder who's cows died but the guy who told me this knows everything you can about cattle and has owned them for forever. He is a vet and has AI'ed thousands and has owned many. He has done way too many surgeries than you can count. Again, I am not saying it can not be done, I am saying that I trust this guys opinion more than anybody else's.

I understand, but it really sounded like you were saying that it's something to be expected or that has to be avoided in every Angus cow herd that is settled with a Hereford bull, hence the objections.

This is what you wrote in bold:

but you have to breed an Angus bull to the Hereford cow because if you do it the other way around the Angus cows might not be able to birth the calf because of the large head size. Herefords have huge heads so it can make it difficult.

That's exactly what you said and the reason why I had to object to that. There are way more variations within a breed than between breeds, that's something that you and that feller you were talking to should understand, and I hope you do understand that, not judge a breed by it's faults and assume it's a problem in every animal that is comprised of that breed.

And for the sake of knowledge and understanding, when someone tells you he "knows everything you can about cattle and has owned them for forever" is most likely one that is full of it. That's what I've learned, and I'm just stating the obvious.

Alright, I'm not going to push it anymore, mods.

 

[Stubbornhillfarm]

Blackhereford boy, she looks nice! Congratulations. I can't see her front half, but have seen your web site and see that raising cattle is in your family. Good for you! I am happy to see you carrying on with family tradition.

 

[Symphony]

Black Baldies are cool but you have to breed an Angus bull to the Hereford cow because if you do it the other way around the Angus cows might not be able to birth the calf because of the large head size. Herefords have huge heads so it can make it difficult. I know someone who knows a guy and he lost 23 of his 25 Angus cows that way. They died giving birth.

Um, I would stick with Goats. I've never heard of Angus or Herefords having trouble birthing eithers calves unless the birth weight is going to be high and its a new mother. Its usually Charolais bred to Angus or Hereford that problems happen.

If I were going to start over, and raise strictly commercial cattle- I would take Herf cows- breed them to Angus bulls-- to make black baldy-- or as our OP says black herf. I then would take those F1 daughters, and breed them to Char bulls. That is my ideal 3 way cross.

While the Char breed is an exotic, or non-British breed, that doesn't make them a knock off hard calving breed. While I'm not a Char person, with one day's searching, I could find an entire page of calving ease Char bulls to use on my heifers, and I bet I could find at least 2 or 3 of them that I would breed to my Jersey heifers and not worry about them. Again, i state the differences b/w a breed's population is, or can be as great as b/w different breeds. One of the smallest heifer calves I've ever had born here was sired by a club calf Smoke F1 Char/ Maine bull.

Problems occur b/c producers don't care about what they select, buy, and use. These people just have cows, and just want calves. Some even go to the salebarn and buy their bulls- they buy a white bull, and call him char-- then when his calving is a disaster, they gripe... Why do you think the bull was at the sale barn in the first place? and it's a good chance he could be a Belgium blue.

Now there's a breed that I won't argue about being hard calving on nearly every cow you breed one to.

Hmmm, Cedar do you live in Illinois. I know someone with a very familiar Cattle herd to you.
Belgium Blue aren't all that common in the US.

 

[greybeard]

I agree with WRB

and to the OP-- your heifer needs groceries if you intend for her to be a competitive show heifer at most shows.

PS. I'd like to hear your definition of the difference b/w a Herf/ Angus baldy, and a black herf.

That was the first day I got her off the pasture she looks a lot better now. Plus she is only 3 months old I know that is early but the shows are this month and I really needed her up at the barn.

As for the difference I don't know But here is the link to the association www.blackhereford.com

So basically what the site says is we made Herefords black to go with the black back craze and the misunderstanding that black colored cattle make better quality meat.

Pretty much--and with a closed herd book already. Black hide fever.

 

[Blackhereford boy]

This fourm is for discussing the calf not the breed thank you.

As for Duchess the calf she is 5 months old and beat my 1 1/2 year old pregnant heifer at the show today I was proud of her

 

[greybeard]

Wow but she is full blood blackhereford

This fourm is for discussing the calf not the breed thank you.

 

[Blackhereford boy]

Topic closed thank you for every ones kind comments on the heifer

And graybeard I said that she was a full blood black Hereford because there is a lot of confusin between ballfield and black Herefords and want to spred word about these fantastic cattle (and yes I realize I just said something about the breed)

 

[autumnprairie]

beauitful calf