How much grain is too much?

[Goatherd]

I am very against 'grain' but do like feed.

I know feed to be nothing more than processed grains with supplementary ingredients to create a specifically designed food. Without grain, there would be no feed. The words are semantically interchangeable.

 

[Straw Hat Kikos]

I am very against 'grain' but do like feed.

I know feed to be nothing more than processed grains with supplementary ingredients to create a specifically designed food. Without grain, there would be no feed. The words are semantically interchangeable.

Kind of. Grain is in the food but they have all kinds of other stuff in there that they need with some grain. I am against straight grain.

Straight grain has almost no benefit. All it really is is filler and that is not good for them. Straight grain can be dangerous too, where as feed really isn't.

 

[SkyWarrior]

It really depends on your goats.

I don't like giving a lot of feed with the hay. Call me crazy, but I think it might contribute to overeating disease. When I do feed "grain," I feed a balanced sweet feed made for stock. I will feed that to my chickens, geese, and ducks as well so that if the goats get it, it won't be too dangerous. It's a little low in protein for the birds, but I supplement. Animals get organic fruit and vegetable scraps. The inside birds also get leftovers. The outside birds can catch bugs.

I will intentionally feed my lactating goat sweet feed twice a day while I milk her. Jf she were to eat it all, she would get about 8 cups. I suspect she gets around 4-6 cups of feed.

If you think your goats are healthy, they probably are. Diet-wise, my goats probably get more feed/grain because they eat some of the feed thrown for the birds.

 

[Roll farms]

FWIW, goats ate 'grain' for a few thousand years after being domesticated until humans decided to create 'feed' for them w/ in the last hundred years or so.
Grass seed heads are grain.
Yes, they prefer and do better w/ browse, but grain is acceptable if you know what you're doing.

Dr. Frank Pinkerton (who knows more about goats / goat nutrition than anyone else I've ever learned from) suggests feeding whole corn to pg and lactating does to up their caloric intake if hay alone isn't enough in a particular person's situation (low quality hay or a poor-doing / underweight goat).

I feed our goats whole corn and BOSS in their 'feed' mix and have never had issues w/ it....but I don't overfeed them, and they can't escape and get into it. We make any feed changes gradually, adding less corn in summer and more in winter.

We feed grain, immediately followed by hay. I would never feed grain w/out hay....I want the fiber right there in the rumen w/ the feed. Feed / grain fermenting in there alone would worry me a lot more as far as bloat / digestive upsets. If you're not giving grain at all, great...but mine will never be fed grain w/out also being fed hay at the same time.

I would never go by the feeding suggestions on the bag alone...the company is in business to sell feed....they'll suggest overfeeding so you buy more....and you end up w/ fat goats.

It's simple: If my goats look skinny, I up the ration...if they look fat, I cut it back. Some get NOTHING but hay. Some HAVE to have their grain mix. We have a mixed meat and dairy goat herd and my boers tend to look fat, our dairy goats tend to look 'good', w/ a few on the lean side. When I can, I seperate boer from dairy and feed accordingly. If needed, I pull any 'skinny' goats into the barn daily for their own extra rations....I stop once they look / feel good to me.

 

[Goatherd]

Call me crazy, but I think it might contribute to overeating disease.

I won't call you crazy, but maybe you're unaware that overeating disease is caused by two strains of bacteria and not what or how much a goat eats.
In my opinion, it's a poorly name illness and tends to cause confusion.

 

[20kidsonhill]

Thanks for the advice. They are getting about a cup each a day. I am going to try and weigh them and then read the bag better. They do have nice little plump bellys!

I am going to try to redirect this towards the OP, If you all care to discuss grain vs. feed I would suggest starting another thread.

to Fernwood: becareful you don't confuse a "nice plump Belly" with being in good condition. In ruminants, especially, a round belly can indicate a lake of protein in the diet. You goat should be evaluated on overall condition based on the amount of finish or thickness over the hips, back and rib cage. Not saying your goats arn't in good condition, just commenting that round fat bellies in not the best discription of overall condition. It sounds to me like you are probably doing a good job feeding them.
Normally, when they reach 7 to 8 months of age, is when your does will slow down on frame growth and put weight on easier, so we normally feed our does twice a day pretty much all they will eat in grain/pelleted feed until they reach a junior stage and starts to get the extra finish on them, then we cut back to one feeding a day of about 1 lb(3 cups), by that point for us our goats are normally 90 to 100lbs, I realize you have a smaller breed. we are also pushign ours to be bred by 10 months of age, so growth rate is important for us.
The amount you are feeding sounds like a good plan.

I always mention weight, because what your 3 month old kid is eating now, may need to be increased when she is 5 months old to obtain the same growth rate, since she will be heavier in a couple months. Then as they get older those demands willl drop.

 

[SkyWarrior]

Call me crazy, but I think it might contribute to overeating disease.

I won't call you crazy, but maybe you're unaware that overeating disease is caused by two strains of bacteria and not what or how much a goat eats.
In my opinion, it's a poorly name illness and tends to cause confusion.

No, I am quite aware that it is caused by clostridium perfringens C/D.

I said contribute, not cause.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

The idea that straight grain has no benefit is not true. Straight grain (depending on the grain) has plenty of nutrition, and that's why feed is made from it. Corn, for example, is high in energy and is a great supplement if you animals need more than what they're getting from pasture or hay. Really, all pelleted or bagged feed is is grain mixed with vitamins and minerals. It may change shape and be rolled, crimped, steamed, pelleted, etc, but it is grain. And whole grains AND pre-mixed feed are equally as dangerous. Both can cause issues like bloat and acidosis. Right now I'm feeding a mix of different whole grains and a mineral mix.

Nobody is going to be able to answer the "how much is too much" question, because it's all dependent on each situation. What's good for my goats may not be good for someone else's. Generally, the majority of a ruminants' diet should come from forage. If your goats are in good condition, then their diet is good. If they're too thin, improve the quality of their feed and you may need to add in "grain" (the term commonly used to refer to any concentrated feed) or up the quality of the forage available. If the goats are too fat, then cut out all grain, and perhaps limit the quality or availability of the forage.

 

[Fernwood Hollow]

Ok, to clarify... Two girls came from a farm where they were dam raised and the herd only got browse and hay, no grain. The other two sisters were bottle fed and VERY human spoiled, no grain either. Both breeders said that they should be started on grain. I brought them home a week apart. They have free choice hay 24/7, browse loose in the yard 2-5 hours a day, and Dumor goat pellets with BOSS mixed in once a day. They share about three cups of grain and one cup of BOSS. Their bellies have grown considerable in the couple of weeks they have been here. I have to contribute it to the grain, since they had not had it before. Being a horse person, I know how dangerous overfeeding can be. But they seem "starving" when I bring them their grain. Although horses will do the same. I will take some pictures and post them.

 

[SkyWarrior]

Ok, to clarify... Two girls came from a farm where they were dam raised and the herd only got browse and hay, no grain. The other two sisters were bottle fed and VERY human spoiled, no grain either. Both breeders said that they should be started on grain. I brought them home a week apart. They have free choice hay 24/7, browse loose in the yard 2-5 hours a day, and Dumor goat pellets with BOSS mixed in once a day. They share about three cups of grain and one cup of BOSS. Their bellies have grown considerable in the couple of weeks they have been here. I have to contribute it to the grain, since they had not had it before. Being a horse person, I know how dangerous overfeeding can be. But they seem "starving" when I bring them their grain. Although horses will do the same. I will take some pictures and post them.

Welcome to goats. All my critters seem starving when I bring them hay and grain/feed. Just the nature of the beast, so to speak. My goats will act like they never got a bit of food in their lives when I have grain/feed. It's like candy to them.