How much land do I want?

[Latestarter]

For what you want, it seems to me that 10-15 acres should work out about right for you. Not sure why 3 Dexters vice 2... one pregnant and one lactating... Unless you wanted more overlap. Really if the land you buy has a 10 acre requirement for the 3 Dexters, then you break that into 3-4 pastures and rotate the cows through each. That gives each a chance to recover between use. I hope you find the ideal property for what you want to do!

 

[norseofcourse]

A ballpark number on carrying capacity around here is 1 AU/5 acres, assuming some level of improved pasture.

So 5 acres of lush pasture for 2 donkeys seems like overkill.

I'm thinking that if carrying capacity is 1 animal unit per five acres, it's not 'lush' pasture?

 

[Bruce]

That was my thought as well Norse. "Lush pasture" on land with a carrying capacity of 0.2 AU/acre seems like it would be an oxymoron. Especially so since that carrying capacity is dependant on "some level of improved pasture". Not sure how easy it is to "improve" sand, rock or clay when you are talking acres, not square feet of garden for personal use where you can afford to dump quantities of whatever the soil needs.

I would think on land like that "intensive pasture/grazing management" would tend toward moving the animals every day if not more often through smaller pasture areas so they don't take much out leaving the roots with little green to keep the plants alive. Follow grass grazers with chickens that will eat the bugs, etc.

There was an article in Organic Living in the last issue or the one before that on how someone used rotational grazing with the "proper type of animals" to bring back hay fields that were unable to grow much of anything without large amounts of chemical fertilizer as had been done for decades by the prior owners.

 

[promiseacres]

Frankly get as much land as you can afford. Any "extra" pasture can become hay ground (shares or lease it if you don't want to make it yourself) where I am you can (with rotation and limited time on pasture) support about 1000# of livestock per acre, go north a few miles I suspect it is 1000# per 3,4 acres due to sand. We have sand too, but it's black sand and better producing. You won't have extra very long.... it never seems like enough. Especially with large livestock. Even miniature cows consume massive amounts of water, so make sure there's a good water source, year around.

 

[misfitmorgan]

We are considered to have LUSH pasture here. Our recommended stocking rate is 1.33AU(1,333lbs) per 1 Acre but even here a pair of donkey would require at least 2 acres of pasture in order to not tear it up or graze it down to a crisp.

You are correct intensive pasture rotation is to make the most out of a smaller parcel and does allow you a higher stocking rate but that is all relative to your AU too. Your recommended stocking rate converts out to 0.2AU per 1 Acre that is 200lbs per acre. An average adult donkey weighs 350lbs times 2 because you want 2 of them, that comes out to 700lbs divide that by your AU 700/.2=3.5. So your donkey pair would need 3.5 acres of pasture, you could get away with 3 acres divided into two 1.5 acre parcels i'm pretty sure.

The dexter cows weigh 600-1000lbs each, typically the bulls are up to 1,000lbs heifers/cows are going to be 600-700lbs. So if you are only doing heifers/cows you can average it out to .65au for each cow times 3 is 1.95/0.2=9.75acres for the cows.

Pigs.. if the pigs are going to be butcher pigs you can average them at .275au each times 3 for your 3 pigs so thats .825/0.2=4.125acres for the pigs.

So we have the following:
Donkey x 2 = 3 acres
Cows x 3 = 9.75 acres
Pigs x 3 = 4.125 acres
Plus your 1-2 acres for around the house/garden/orchard
18-19acres is the minimum requirement

Alternatively if it was swapped to goats instead of cows.

Goats are 0.10au per animal so say and if your wanting them for milk to be equivalent to the dexter cows would be approx 6 goats assuming they give 1 gallon each a day. If your wanting the cows for meat to be equivalent you would need approx 13 goats.
So milk goats .1x6=.6/.2=3 acres
Meat Goats .1x13=1.3/.2=6.5 acre

So we have the following:
Donkey x 2 = 3 acres
Milk goats x 6 = 3 acres
Pigs x 3 = 4.125 acres
Plus your 1-2 acres for around the house/garden/orchard
12-13acres is the minimum requirement

Or the following:
Donkey x 2 = 3 acres
Meat goats x 6 = 6.5 acres
Pigs x 3 = 4.125 acres
Plus your 1-2 acres for around the house/garden/orchard
15-16acres is the minimum requirement

Your also going to need space for shelters, feeders, waterers, grain storage, hay/straw storage, manure pile. Also consider that as your family grows your garden needs or animal needs may as well. Putting the pigs in the garden area is an excellant idea however keep in mine that beyond the intial pig "plowing" the only left for them to get from your garden area is going to be fall cleanup. Since your only planning on 1-2 acres by the house i would assume your garden would only be about 1/2acre max, 3 pigs on a half acre will be tore up with nothing left to eat very quickly...maybe a week if your lucky. So counting on them going in the garden for long periods of time is not really a viable option. You also need to be super careful putting pigs in an orchard, like let them in the orchard and go check on them in 2 hrs and when they have eaten all the down fruit or their fill for the day take them back to their pen/pasture. Pigs easily can and will root up fruit trees esp young trees.

Rotational grazing as i mentioned is directly related to your AU for your area but it is also related to your rainfall and temps. If you have a year with hot hot temps and little rainfall the odds are your au is going o drop even farther like 1au per 7.5 acres and as soon as your AU drops your pasture doesnt have a chance in you know where of recovering that season. General good farming practices say not to max out your lands capacity for day to day living which makes plenty of sense.

Also consider what if your children want other animals later say sheep, a mini horse, ducks, etc where would you put them?

I would add a 25% buffer to the numbers above at the very least.
18-19 acres would be 22.5-23.75 acres
12-13 acres would be 15-16.25 acres
15-16 acres would be 18.75-20acres

17-25acres seems the most realistic for what your wanting to do. You do not want to end up feeling you need more land in 5-10years and you also do not want to get stuck buying hay all summer/fall/winter because you had a bad year for your pasture.

Also i would prefer clay to sand so would probly go north or west. From looking at satellite maps north and west also look a lot more green then south and east.

 

[NH homesteader]

@misfitmorgan you are good at this! Lol I am so going to ask for your advice when I'm land shopping!

 

[Bossroo]

A donkey is not very cost effective animal to keep. I have neighbors that had jennies and gelded donkeys that harrassed as well as maimed./killed other farm animals that were pastured with them. Consider swaping them for a beef, sheep , or goat for a better return on your investment.

 

[LMK17]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts!

How many acres does your county consider the minimum for claiming Ag? It might be a good idea to buy at least the minimum.

Even pastured pigs will roll up a pasture if there isn't enough grass. We currently have 4 pigs on 3/4 an acre and they utterly destroyed it in less than a week. We have 8 acres and don't have enough pasture to rotate pastured pigs. A neighbor has Kune Kune pigs, supposedly the ultimate pasture pig, but he doesn't rotate them and they have stripped all vegetation in their pen.

It depends on the county. One county we're looking at has no actual minimum acreage, but there is a functional acreage, so to speak. For animals, they require about 4 AU regardless of species, so I figure there's no point in trying for an ag exemption for them unless we have >20 acres. Another county requires 15 acres for cattle and most other animals.

I really don't see myself getting into pastured pigs, as much as I like the idea. They're just way too destructive. I think I'll need to give any hogs a nicely sized pen that I'm OK turning to mud, run them other places when practical, and just call it good.

Not sure why 3 Dexters vice 2... one pregnant and one lactating...

That's a good point. I had been thinking 1 brood cow for milk + her calf + buy another calf to put on her. We don't need all that much milk, so I think we'd be fine sharing with the babies, and then I would have an extra beef or perhaps a heifer to sell... You know what, though? I'll bet that would work better with full size cattle. AND I'm probably grossly overestimating the availability of newborn Dexters! LOL Also, since space is maybe an issue for us, we're probably better off foregoing the 3rd cow. Thanks.

I'm thinking that if carrying capacity is 1 animal unit per five acres, it's not 'lush' pasture?

LOL OK, you got me there! Still, some pasture around here is, of course, better than others. That's what I was thinking of. Even around here, I suspect that a donkey might get overweight on the best local pastureland. The typical pasture around here is probably right up a donkey's alley.

That was my thought as well Norse. "Lush pasture" on land with a carrying capacity of 0.2 AU/acre seems like it would be an oxymoron. Especially so since that carrying capacity is dependant on "some level of improved pasture". Not sure how easy it is to "improve" sand, rock or clay when you are talking acres, not square feet of garden for personal use where you can afford to dump quantities of whatever the soil needs.

Once again, you guys got me there... Not exactly lush... But by improved pasture, I meant not native pasture. Stocking densities for native pasture here are like 1 AU/15 acres or something. I meant, for example, a pasture planted in coastal bermuda, which is common enough around here... Maybe there's a better term I should've used?

We are considered to have LUSH pasture here. Our recommended stocking rate is 1.33AU(1,333lbs) per 1 Acre but even here a pair of donkey would require at least 2 acres of pasture in order to not tear it up or graze it down to a crisp.
...

Also i would prefer clay to sand so would probly go north or west. From looking at satellite maps north and west also look a lot more green then south and east.

Wow! Thanks so much for all the work you put into that! I really appreciate it! Your numbers and recommendations seem spot on. The only thing I adjusted down for my own purposes was the 4+ acres for pigs... I just don't see myself pasturing the pigs. I'd love to do that for them, but they'er just SO HARD on pasture. If penning them doesn't work for one reason or another, I'll probably just go back to buying my bacon from the grocery store! LOL Really, thanks again!

A donkey is not very cost effective animal to keep. I have neighbors that had jennies and gelded donkeys that harrassed as well as maimed./killed other farm animals that were pastured with them. Consider swaping them for a beef, sheep , or goat for a better return on your investment.

Oh, I'm being totally selfish in wanting the donkeys! I've wanted a horse pretty much my whole life, BUT I have very little equine experience, and I can't get past the idea of horses as money pits. However, larger donkeys can do pretty much anything I'd like a horse to do (pleasure riding, some driving), and they're generally considered to be easier keepers with maybe more sense than horses. I figure if I'm going to get an equine, longears are a good place to start. My dream, though, would be a matched pair of Norwegian Fjords. Anyway, pretty much all my animals need to earn their keep, but the equines can be a splurge, far as I'm concerned! And I've known horses and goats to chase and harass other animals, too, so it's not just the donks. You make a good point, though.

So, my husband and I sat down for a good long while tonight and went back over the potential properties. We've pretty much scratched anything under 10 acres from our list. Actually, we sent our real estate agent a list of our top 5 or so places. They range from just a hair over 11 acres to 23 acres-- Hopefully something in there will work out! Unfortunately, they're all south of here, and I'd rather not head down that way. But up north, the biggest tract in our price range right now is only 8 acres.

 

[Latestarter]

Just remember... it's all about location, and you get what you pay for. 8 acres of decent quality property might be far better than 23 acres of crap property.

 

[NH homesteader]

Not to squash your dream, but have you ever worked with a Fjord? Lol they are independent stubborn things! To put it mildly!

Were you planning on breeding pigs or doing feeder pigs? Sorry I can't remember. Having just feeder pigs in a pen isn't bad, breeding presents more of an issue.

The other thing is, are you ok with supplementing? You don't need that much land if you are supplementing with hay, grain, etc. It's great to not have to buy feed for a good portion of the year but if you end up spending a fortune on fencing it might be better to spend some of that fortune on hay... It's totally up to you.

Oh and yes, Dexters are expensive so good plan on sticking with 2!