How much milk from ff nubian?

[Sweetened]

For what it's worth, here's my experience:

I train kickers using a dog leash. Their back legs go in the handle which is pulled up and over their knees. I wrap the long part of the leash around the middle, between the legs, at least 3 times to cinch down on the tendons and then tie down the rest of the long part of the leash to something solid and unwaivering. She can hop, but she can't kick.

I train my girls to stand without grain from the get-go, as we don't grain our does except for reward oats but that doesn't help production. They're also usually too disgruntled with me at their udder to care about it in the first place. I sit at their middle and face their back end, so their leg stance being wide doesn't really matter and, when they get the hang of the hobble, they'll often flex their hips outwards to give you access. I milk as much as you can and I NEVER end on a bad note. Always end with a successful squirt or at least a hold of the udder without any bouncing and flailing. Once that goes well for a week, I TRY it without the hobble tied to anything. If there is any acting up, I tie it down. Do the same the next day, hopefully you'll go longer and longer. At the end of it, I give oats or BOSS (sometimes, I haven't been with the one doe I'm milking).

I will say, I had an amazingly easy time with Gladys. We pulled her kids and she stood for me as a FF from the moment I touched her udder. She gets antsy and wanders, but I give her a good pull and she'll stand again. I milk her wherever she is in the pen (she's too big for a stand). She is a FF Toggenburg/Nubain/Saanen cross, (50% Nubian) and I get a liter to a liter and a half out of her once a day. Again, we DO NOT supplement with milk producing rations or grains. Her udder is beautiful and I consider pushing her with a ration but I'm trying to keep the soy and canola out of their diet and get the most I can out of grass fed animals. Her sister, as a FF, would give a gallon every 3 days, but she had lost her kid a week and a half prior to us getting her and had never been touched, so it took a few days for her to fill.

I hope this helps.

 

[Moody]

Thanks for all the suggestions.
She is getting better with the kicking but she absolutely refuses to get of my stand so I tied her to it with a dog leash and milked her next to it. I was sweaty trying to get her 120 pound self up there. Unless I can lift her completely and I cannot. Then she was pissed at me and refused to eat much. Still only got 1/2 cup or so and had about 10 hairs in it. So the dogs got it. I get tired of staying hunched there on the ground. One smaller teat is a bit harder to milk. Should I be getting more than 1/2 cup?

So I gave the bowl of feed to her in her stall where she stays with her babe. Just to ensure she is getting enough calories.

 

[Sweetened]

She is probably not letting down for you because of your frustration. My nubian crosses are 200 and 260lbs taped weight respectively, they are simply too big for the stand we have so i tie them to other things

Yes, you SHOULD be able to expect more tha. Half a cup, but i have an oberhasli (who are notorious for being gallon a day ff's) who, as a ff, gave me a cup a milking in her peak and is 2.5 cups a milking as a second freshner, though ive been unable to milk her.

I dont massage them to let down, i hold the teat like im about to milk it and bump up firmly 3 or 4 times each. This is what a kid does. I usually give it 10 seconds or so and then start milking. When you feel like she is empty, you should run your hands from the top of the back of her udder down either half a couple times to pull more milk down and see if you can get more. If you can, do it again until you cant anymore.

Id stop offering her food and plan to sit with her for 30 minutes. Handle the udder. When she doesnt kick or buck or stomp, offer her a small handfull of something she LOVES (mine are boss, oats or raisins).

Flora trained in 3 days for me. After 3 weeks, her witch of a sister and i never came to terms and i gave up training her. Never managed to get a squirt of her milk kept because she would fall all over the place, bawl bloody murder, and half kill herself no matter how i restrained her or what i restrained her to. She, while hobbled and tethered with a leash on her collar so she could barely move her head, managed to kick me in the shoulder and end up on her back, hanging herself while flailing her front feet so i had to dodge bullets while trying to get the leash unhooked.

as others have said, she may be like one of my obers and just not a good milker, it happens. She isnt as big as id think she should be, but then so many people have small nubians these days. I look at gladys whos half nubian, 260lbs, and the top of her head is nearly 5ft high. She is massive!

 

[babsbag]

@Sweetened 260 lb goat ?? That is a moose, sorry, not a goat. I have big goats and have milked bigger goats but bet none of them top 200lbs. That IS massive.

My first milking experiences were dreadful. A cup if I was lucky and like most of the rest of you I fought a kicking hopping goat and tried to keep the milk pail upright. I did resort to hobbles and they didn't help much. Unfortunately that goat died before I got her trained but now I have many many others. I have had them balk at the stand, but I do feed grain on the stand, and only on the stand. No stand, no grain...they don't balk for long. I have pulled them up onto the stand far enough to lock their head in and then lifted their hind end up. If they are really dancers I will milk into a hand held container, like a jar or cup, because I can move it out of the way faster and they can't step in it. There has been a few well placed slaps on the flanks too especially on the one that wants to lay on me when I milk. She needs to move over.

Most of them are trained to the grain and if there is grain they will hold still and let me milk. But now I have a milking machine so I win every time.

I agree that she is probably withholding milk from you. I would separate the kid and milk in the morning. I tried bringing kids into the milking room and I think it really made things worse.

 

[Moody]

This morning I went out with the determination not to get frustrated with her and I succeeded. Only got 3/4 cup and I stopped with the bucket at 1/2 cup. Put it aside and danced around trying to get more into the strip cup. The leash I tied her with gives her leeway to move just a bit so I will have to fix that and have either the hobble or another leash to tie her legs cause after about 10 min she is done, but that is when I get into a good rhythm and have good flow. She was interested in eating but stopped before even getting close to eating it all. No more feed outside of the milk area. She ate what I put into her pen after last nights wrestling match.

I just worry about hypocalcemia or ketosis and the grain being less suddenly since she isn't eating it as heartily. Sometimes she does and sometimes (like this morning) she does not.

 

[GLENMAR]

My FF Nubians usually give a quart at first. Within a few days, most are up to a gallon. I bottle raise the babies. If you milk twice a day you will get more milk.

 

[GLENMAR]

I doubt if you would have to worry about hypocalcemia or ketosis unless she is milking heavily.

 

[Sweetened]

I don't think she's producing enough to spurr on hypocalcemia? Part of the reason we don't grain is I had a ketosis scare my first go round.

I just thought of something I don't think any of us have asked. How long are her teats and do you find they take a great amount of strength to squeeze out milk? I find goats with small teats tedious to milk and a huge reason I won't own ND's (aside from every ND around here is a rotund, ugly, fat faced greyish thing with horns that stick straight up; they look like oompaloompa's, not goats), as as soon as I get the rhythm, that teat slips out of position and I have to start again. I have a doe, Tootsie, who has great big handles. I can wrap my hand around them in a fist at the top of the teat and she still has some teat remaining at the bottom of my hand that sticks out -- but she requires GREAT strength to draw down. Her udder lacks pliability, and I think her orifices are a little smaller than would be ideal. It's like squeezing thick bread dough out of an icing piping bag. I have become used to it and have muscular wrists, but I always milk her last when there's a milking rotation going because she's hard on the hands.

Once you two develop a relationship/understanding, you will become more efficient and proficient at milking. I was lucky, started milking on a doe I bought trained (Tootsie). I knew what a trained goat should look like. When I had Millie, she was decent on the milk stand, but stomped constantly, so I learned how to avoid feet and milk differently with her. Not every goat is built to be a milker, even if they are heavy producing -- I have seen beautiful goats at auctions and spoken with lot owners who have told me: She's here because she isn't trainable. I made the mistake, once, of brushing them off and buying one. She was not trainable, not by me at least!

You are doing GREAT! Progress is PROGRESS and if you can end on a good note with her standing still on the stand, that will go a long way. I have found, since we've had an incident here, my girls LOVE a good cleansing with hand lotion. As long as there is no kids on them or they are kept away for a bit while it absorbs, I am happy to oblige.

 

[Moody]

I'm not actually getting her milked out cause she is done early and I just get pissed at dancing around trying to get more. I will fix the dancing around by tying her as you all have suggested at he first sign of moving or kicking. I am milking 2 times a day about 12 hours apart.

Her teats are small. One is a bit smaller than the other so I try to milk it good. I get the thumb and forefinger around and the middle finger on the smaller one. I get the same and most of ring finger, too on the larger one. I guess baby uses it the most. It doesn't seem to require strength but it does take a few minutes to get it going. I rub down with a warm cloth with a bit of dish soap, then dry her off with a paper towel. Bump a few times, then use hand sanitizer, strip 5 squirts off each teat, hand sanitizer again and go to it. It then takes a few tries to get a rhythm going, just as I finally get it and go to it for about 4-5 min is when she starts the movement and dancing. That's when I notice there is actually more flow and easier so she must be stopping me right as she is letting down and it is getting easier for me.

 

[GLENMAR]

Teat size should get better during this lactation and on future lactations.