I hate cheaters!!

[kfacres]

If there are dead give away-- what are they? You mention Swiss/ Angus cross having white under the belly.. I call natta on that.. For many years, we bred a huge percentage of our Holstein cows to Swiss bulls, and got solid coal black calves-- matter of fact, when we took the bulls to the sale barn, we called and sold them as Angus.

Back to my pictures posted-- which ones are pure dairy, half dairy, and pure beef/ You can't tell.

To throw another wrench into the socket-- what do you do about dual registered animals? Animals that are registered as both beef and dairy, but still purebred?

Here's another couple of pictures.

 

[Pearce Pastures]

I feel your pain...when people enter a competition with a deception, it cheapens it for everyone whether they win or not. You don't need to defend that to those that just want to brag on themselves instead of offering friendly advice. This, after all, is NOT a competition but good sportsmanship should still apply.

 

[Cricket]

I guess if nothing else it will serve as an illustration to the kids of the kind of person they don't want to be. Maybe 4H will teach that man's child the importance of respect and fairness and save the world from yet another egotistical buffoon.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

There will always be cheaters, and it's especially sad when it's for 4-H. Parents get so whacked out about their kid having the best of the best, that they will stretch, bend, and break rules. Pretty sad when an adult has to show kids it's ok to lie and cheat in order to win a ribbon. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. Heck, even some breeders out there will crossbreed their animals and lie on registration papers saying it's a purebred. That's how some breeders have to operate to try to get the "winning" animals. Not sure how they can live with themselves...must be awful knowing that's what kind of person you are.

I'd rather my kids show ethically, and not win, than lie and win. What does that teach them? Nothing.

 

[kfacres]

I see everyone is still on the cheating rant-- however, few have actually proven that what this person did was cheating, or other similar circumstances. I live a whole state away from this place as posted by the O.P., and I do not doubt one bit that the calf is question was probably crossbred with a club calf type animal... I do not have an connection with the ordeal, nor do I really care.

but the fact remains, nobody has yet to explain to me what you do with dual purpose, dual registered animals, and I've yet to read anyone having the knowledge to point out in my pictures above-- which animals are which by the naked eye.

So, I guess my point is, everyone is going to gripe and complain about cheaters, yet nobody can prove anything about cheating, nor can they actually implant the rules to deal with it.

So, what good does it do to get on here and complain?

 

[aggieterpkatie]

People can complain if they want to. Just like you have the right to go in an pick apart people's threads if you want to. My advice, if you want to do something besides complain, would be to talk with the fair board and ask that the rules be chanced to allow crossbred animals. If they won't change the rules, then those with crossbred animals won't be able to show at the fair, or they'll have to get purebred (or pure dairy, whatever) animals to show in the fair. Just like some kids can't show if their animals don't make weight, others won't be able to show because they did not follow the rules about what animals can be shown.

 

[redtailgal]

There will always be cheaters, and it's especially sad when it's for 4-H. Parents get so whacked out about their kid having the best of the best, that they will stretch, bend, and break rules. Pretty sad when an adult has to show kids it's ok to lie and cheat in order to win a ribbon. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. Heck, even some breeders out there will crossbreed their animals and lie on registration papers saying it's a purebred. That's how some breeders have to operate to try to get the "winning" animals. Not sure how they can live with themselves...must be awful knowing that's what kind of person you are.

I'd rather my kids show ethically, and not win, than lie and win. What does that teach them? Nothing.

Well said. The 4h around here has three main goals when it comes to teaching kids to show.......honesty, husbandry and sportsmanship. They expect the same from the parents.

One of my good friends is an ag extension agent, and a leader in 4h. She helps kids show goats and calves. She is pretty strict with her kids, requiring them to help one another, even if they are competing against one another. It's yielded wonderful results from the kids, even the teens. If another child defeats them, they can still take some pride in the winning critter, because they helped the winning handler. LOL, last year there were three of "her kids" competing against one another in one of the show classes. When the 1st place winner was announced, the spectators were a little confused because ALL THREE of the kids (the other two didnt even place) were happy and clapping as thought they had won themselves. They were all so happy that the audience needed a minute to figure out which one had actually won. It was DELIGHTFUL.

On the other hand, she had someone several years back who tried to "bend" the rules. She reported them to the judges, and not only were they disqualified, but the teen competitor and his parents were escorted off the premises.

I wish that all 4h clubs would be as strict.

 

[kfacres]

People can complain if they want to. Just like you have the right to go in an pick apart people's threads if you want to. My advice, if you want to do something besides complain, would be to talk with the fair board and ask that the rules be chanced to allow crossbred animals. If they won't change the rules, then those with crossbred animals won't be able to show at the fair, or they'll have to get purebred (or pure dairy, whatever) animals to show in the fair. Just like some kids can't show if their animals don't make weight, others won't be able to show because they did not follow the rules about what animals can be shown.

so you recommend that 4H DQ kids with crossbred animals? What good will that do, since the basis of a good percentage of the nation's livestock herds are built upon crossbred genetics? Is that discrimination?

I'm not picking apart any thread, just helping everyone look at it from another angle.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

People can complain if they want to. Just like you have the right to go in an pick apart people's threads if you want to. My advice, if you want to do something besides complain, would be to talk with the fair board and ask that the rules be chanced to allow crossbred animals. If they won't change the rules, then those with crossbred animals won't be able to show at the fair, or they'll have to get purebred (or pure dairy, whatever) animals to show in the fair. Just like some kids can't show if their animals don't make weight, others won't be able to show because they did not follow the rules about what animals can be shown.

so you recommend that 4H DQ kids with crossbred animals? What good will that do, since the basis of a good percentage of the nation's livestock herds are built upon crossbred genetics? Is that discrimination?

I'm not picking apart any thread, just helping everyone look at it from another angle.

I recommend kids (or parents with kids) with crossbred animals try to get their local fair rules changed so they can show. If the board won't change the rules, then I guess the kids can't show. This is silly anyways, since those kids with dairy/meat cross animals usually KNOW they're going to be at a disadvantage when showing in a meat class (which is USUALLY all meat breeds). This is a little tricky in this case, because it's a dairy beef class. IMO, the kid with the dairy/maine cross needs to show the animal in the non-dairy meat class.

And it's not discrimination is the rules are clearly posted. If kids/parents can't follow the rules, they'll learn better for next year I guess.

Once, when I was about 22 or so (so out of 4-H at the time), I brought my commercial ewes to the county fair. I was new to the county, so it was my first time showing at the fair. I got there and checked in, and they asked for the registration papers for my entries. I told them only 2 of my 6 or 7 animals were purebred and registered. They told me they did not have any classes for any crossbred animals. I was pretty bummed out, but those were the rules. The judge overheard them telling me this, and she said she usually judges crossbred classes too, so I was allowed to enter in a "new" crossbred category they created just for me that year. Now this fair allows crossbreds. I'd never heard of a fair having purebred ONLY shows, so it was news to me when they told me. I didn't create a stink when they first told me it was purebred only, and I was prepared to show only my purebred animals, but I was really happy when they made an exception. Sometimes all you have to do is ask.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

If there are dead give away-- what are they? You mention Swiss/ Angus cross having white under the belly.. I call natta on that.. For many years, we bred a huge percentage of our Holstein cows to Swiss bulls, and got solid coal black calves-- matter of fact, when we took the bulls to the sale barn, we called and sold them as Angus.

I doubt that's what she was referring to, from the way I read it. She was stating about how all PB Swiss are always born with the white or cream under their belly and under the fore- and hindlegs, and that it's a dead give away that they don't if they're an Angus-Swiss cross, which is the example she used and which come out a solid colour being Black.

That's all I have to contribute to this thread.