Inbreeding...

[babsbag]

I have bred many a daughter to their sire with no ill effects. I won't do it a second generation. I have also done the lute.

 

[OneFineAcre]

I have bred many a daughter to their sire with no ill effects. I won't do it a second generation. I have also done the lute.

We bred a half brother and sister this year but it wasn't an accident
Their mom is our best doe
She's not just our best doe she's excellent period

 

[frustratedearthmother]

I have done it for years. I've done mother-son, father-daughter, grandfather - granddaughter, uncle-niece, and half-brother-half-sister, etc. I won't do full-brother sister - I think they share too many genes. I've had some awesome results and some that were just so-so, but no major problems.

 

[Southern by choice]

@frustratedearthmother how many generations do you keep of the offspring? I have seen a good deal of inbreeding and it seems to generally affect 2nd generation offspring as far as the "undesirable" traits coming out. The kids of the inbreeding seem fine in most cases but the next generation seems to be the one that gets the issues.

What have you found? Past few years I have watched quite a few people doing lots of experimentation and results were not good... of course I do think having basic understanding of genetics makes a difference. Not sure how knowledgeable these breeders were.

 

[OneFineAcre]

@frustratedearthmother how many generations do you keep of the offspring? I have seen a good deal of inbreeding and it seems to generally affect 2nd generation offspring as far as the "undesirable" traits coming out. The kids of the inbreeding seem fine in most cases but the next generation seems to be the one that gets the issues.

What have you found? Past few years I have watched quite a few people doing lots of experimentation and results were not good... of course I do think having basic understanding of genetics makes a difference. Not sure how knowledgeable these breeders were.

Did they outcross the next generation?
What do you mean the results "were not good"?

 

[frustratedearthmother]

I have done this for a loooong time. When I was showing I had a herd of 50+ so I had a lot of opportunities to learn. Those were the days!

I have never had a deformed kid until this past year and it was NOT a result of inbreeding. I had a triplet with a front leg that was under-developed and locked in a bent position. Total outcross and no inbreeding involved.

I have a tendency to keep a lot of goats for their entire lives. I've got a 14 year old doe out there and I've got at least 4 generations of her offspring. They are my best goats and they produce my best goats. In fact, at this point every one of my pure pygmies are related in some way. Several years back I got a new buck, and he actually went back to my own herd, but he was a couple of generations removed. I bred him to that 14 (she was only 11 then!) year old doe and in the interim he committed suicide. So, I kept a buckling out of that breeding and he's my pygmy herdsire now. I believe in keeping it all in the family, lol.

In all seriousness, the only thing I've noticed is that over the years I've seen a slight reduction in the size of my mature animals. No other issues at all.

BUT, I have to emphasize that it pays to know your animals and be very realistic about their strengths and weaknesses. My herd is pretty well 'set' in their traits these days. I can't say that every kid is perfect and I castrate a LOT around here. But, I do know that my pygmies will have good spring of rib, width in the escutcheon, beautiful heads, and they track straight and move well. On the downside, I will admit that I have a few goats who could have a better ear set and occasionally I will have a beautiful goat who is mis-marked. Color is a big deal in pygmies and no matter how beautifully conformed a pygmy is - there are certain mis-marks that are disqualifying traits.

If you've got animals with traits you admire, I wouldn't be afraid to inbreed.

 

[OneFineAcre]

I have done this for a loooong time. When I was showing I had a herd of 50+ so I had a lot of opportunities to learn. Those were the days!

I have never had a deformed kid until this past year and it was NOT a result of inbreeding. I had a triplet with a front leg that was under-developed and locked in a bent position. Total outcross and no inbreeding involved.

I have a tendency to keep a lot of goats for their entire lives. I've got a 14 year old doe out there and I've got at least 4 generations of her offspring. They are my best goats and they produce my best goats. In fact, at this point every one of my pure pygmies are related in some way. Several years back I got a new buck, and he actually went back to my own herd, but he was a couple of generations removed. I bred him to that 14 (she was only 11 then!) year old doe and in the interim he committed suicide. So, I kept a buckling out of that breeding and he's my pygmy herdsire now. I believe in keeping it all in the family, lol.

In all seriousness, the only thing I've noticed is that over the years I've seen a slight reduction in the size of my mature animals. No other issues at all.

BUT, I have to emphasize that it pays to know your animals and be very realistic about their strengths and weaknesses. My herd is pretty well 'set' in their traits these days. I can't say that every kid is perfect and I castrate a LOT around here. But, I do know that my pygmies will have good spring of rib, width in the escutcheon, beautiful heads, and they track straight and move well. On the downside, I will admit that I have a few goats who could have a better ear set and occasionally I will have a beautiful goat who is mis-marked. Color is a big deal in pygmies and no matter how beautifully conformed a pygmy is - there are certain mis-marks that are disqualifying traits.

If you've got animals with traits you admire, I wouldn't be afraid to inbreed.

The buck I bred to his half sister this year is Zeus.
I wanted to breed him back to his dam Zamia too, but I got voted down.
I wanted to try to make another Zamia.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

Maybe next year...(ahem)....a gate might get left open????

 

[babsbag]

I too have 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation offspring from does that were line bred. When I got my first goats I took them back to the breeder to have them bred and the buck was their sire; I didn't know that at the time but I was so "goat stupid" that it wouldn't have mattered much if I had known. Those kids were bred to entirely unrelated buck the next year but those kids were then bred back to their sire. I just never line breed a second generation nor have I ever done mother to son but that is because I don't keep any of my buck kids. I like to bring in new blood every few years just to mix things up.

I have noticed my goats being smaller as well, but doubt it is the line breeding. I chalk mine up to selenium and copper deficiency, which I am diligently working on this year. I have been using Multi-Min 50 injections and if the does are deficient after this treatment I give up. Also, I don't feed grain to growing kids and I think that makes a difference too. I used to when I only had a few kids each year, now it is impossible to trough feed that many goats without a riot.

 

[Pearce Pastures]

My girl Red is a somewhat on purpose/somewhat by accident line breeding. I was sorting does and bucks as I did my line up for last year and I loved the topline and udder of her dam but thought she could some more width so I picked a buck for her that paired nicely.
I am sure I got distracted because my kids NEVER let me focus on any task for more than 5 minutes, or I would have noticed that the sire I chose was the father to the dam . I didn't even notice until I was filling out papers on Red.

BUT she is a beauty and so far, her shape and temperament are great. I fully plan on keeping her around to see how her milking quality turns out.