Is it ok to have our sheep forage and browse in our Eucalyptus forest?

[Bossroo]

Soar and Baymule too...I would introduce the sheep to the new pasture in the afternoon toward evening ( the sheep would be more read to go nighty night in their night pen with a full belly)when the forage in the pasture is dry from the morning dew or if it is foggy or raining I would't turn them out that day. Too much moisture and the sheep would get the running trots, which in turn translates to a possible dirty butt and then fly strike. Since the sheep have almost a full belly from the poorer hay and then eating the green grass, they will be full and about ready to come in especially if they know that clanking of pans means grain. If the sheep are reluctant to come in, I would recommend that you buy a sheperd's crook ( a long stick with a crook on one end wich is used to catch a sheep by it's hind leg ) which acts as an extention of your hand to incourage and guide the sheep where you want them to go. Or a well trained sheep dog ( Border Collie or NcNabb) ... guard dogs are great in protecting sheep but next to useless in working sheep in a pasture or corral. Put the guard dog up and away from it's sheep before you work the sheep with a herding dog or you would have a dog fight. A well trained sheep dog will be your best friend and helper , so it will save you much labor as well as a few choice cuss words especially when one has a more primitive sheep such as the American black bellies that you have. You can Google for UCD information. As for that Cornell article... it works well in the East where rain fall is plentifull during the Summer, but I am sure that rain is quite rare in Central Cal. in the Summer/ Fall when the pastures turn a golden brown without irrigation. If you notice that the auther of that article wants his lambs to finish 3-6 months of age with a target weight of 80-90 lbs. You will be hard pressed to achieve this in the time frame . The Black bellies genetics for rate of meat gain will need about twice the time and at that point they will be mutton, which brings a much lower price. I would convert them to the Dorper sheep to achieve the stated goals and reap a profit. Also, Since the Dorper ewes breed year round, I would breed them in June, July, Aug. so that the lambs are born in Nov. ealy Dec. to take advantage of the new green pastures before the pastures go dormant in late May early June before you have to feed them purchased hay and grain. Dorper lambs should be finished mostly on pasture by this time and ready to be processed == more profit.

 

[Baymule]

@soarwitheagles that was a tongue in cheek question. I think that is a good plan. I move my sheep from their pasture to another pasture down the driveway. When feed them, I call SHEEP! SHEEP! SHEEP! They come running, baa-baaing. They also come running to a coffee can of feed when I shake it.

So when I move them to pasture #2, I open the gate, calling SHEEP! SHEEP! SHEEP! and they follow me, sometimes nibbling my fingers. I open gate to pasture #2 and they go right in. In the evening, they already come to the gate, ready to go back home.

@Bossroo, I did as you described. I waited until late afternoon to move the sheep from pasture #1 to pasture #2. They got a belly full and were easy to lure back to their shelter with a can of feed.

 

[soarwitheagles]

People here are so funny. Thank you for making this an exciting, fun, and smiling adventure.

Bossroo, you were not joking about UC Davis Animal Science Department. Two of their top professors responded within 8 hours to my emailed questions and inquiries. Wow, that was fast!

Here are some of the suggestions they gave me:

When asked if 30% clover was too much on our pasture mix, this is the reply they gave me:

My only suggestion on the pasture mix, reduce the Rye and increase the clover and birdsfoil to 25% or more(each). Sheep prefer broad leaf plants/legumes over grasses.”

So these professors are advocating 50% or more of the clover/birdsfoil mix! This is very different than what I have read at many other websites...and I find this very interesting!

Someone here asked us how much grain are we feeding our sheep right now?

Well, to be 100% honest with you, I never even considered feeding our sheep grain! I was hoping to do the pasture feeding all year round...and I never even thought of having to purchase any hay. When my neighbor friend and rancher informed me I needed to purchase 60 bales of hay to get these sheep through the winter, I nearly pee-ed my pants! Next thing you know, we have 60 fresh bales of hay in our Ag building and I was left wondering if we will go bankrupt within the first year...

After having some of these sheep for about 6 weeks, I read an interesting article at small holdings and sheep 101...

Small holdings recommend this and I quote:

Good quality forage – hay, haylage or silage – will continue to be the mainstay of the ewes’ diet, but as the lambs grow her rumen capacity is reduced, so feeding a good quality concentrate (minimum 18% protein) will ensure she receives adequate nutrition. Eight weeks before lambing, start giving a small daily feed of 0.25kg per ewe per day – this will enable the rumen microbes to adjust to the change in diet, and it will help get the ewes used to your presence each day. Make sure that the ewes have enough trough space so they can all feed at the same time, otherwise a weaker ewe might miss out on her full ration.

TIP: If you’re unsure about the quality of your forage, consider having it analysed for energy, protein, vitamins and minerals: if your forage is top quality, you can save money by feeding fewer concentrates.

If any of your ewes are looking poor (condition score 2.5 or lower), ask your vet to carry out a blood test up to 4 weeks before lambing to determine their nutritional, vitamin and mineral status. This will allow sufficient time to correct the diet if deficiencies are identified, and is especially important if any of your breeding ewes are yearlings; since they are still growing themselves, their nutritional requirement is higher than that of the mature ewe.

Six weeks before lambing, step up the concentrates to 0.5kg per ewe per day, and then 0.75kg (split into morning and evening feeds) for the following 2 weeks, rising to 1kg per ewe, again split into 2 feeds, for the last two weeks. This feeding regime, designed for a lowland flock, fits in with the lambs’ growth rate during the final stage of pregnancy.

Sheep 101 recommend this:

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    Supplementation
    Grain is often fed to sheep with higher nutritional needs, such as pregnant ewes during late gestation, ewes nursing two or more lambs, and lambs with the genetic potential for rapid growth. Grain is the seed part of cereal crops such as corn, barley, wheat, and oats. It is not "unnatural" for sheep to eat grain. They have always eaten the seeds of plants.
    
    A protein source, such as soybean meal or cottonseed meal is usually added to the grain ration, along with vitamins and minerals to make a 100 percent nutritionally-balanced feed. Unbalanced grain rations can lead to a variety of health concerns.
    
    Sheep love the taste of grain and can experience digestive problems if they eat too much grain too fast. Grain consumption needs to be regulated, introduced slowly and gradually increased in the diet.
    
    Ruminants, such as sheep, should always have some roughage (fibrous feed) in their diets. at least a pound per day for sheep. Producers in many parts of the world cannot afford to feed grain to their livestock. Whereas in some parts of the U.S. and in some years, grain is a more economical source of nutrients that forage.

What have I done and how have I responded to all this new info?

I just began feeding our sheep grain this very week after giving them only hay for weeks!

Hope I am making the correct decisions on this.

Please share your advice and insights with me. We really would like to lambs to be healthy!

Thanks again,

Soar

 

[norseofcourse]

My sheep prefer the weeds/shrubs/vines/trees over the grasses, too, and I think the variety is good for them. Future plans are to seed parts of my pasture with things like chicory and lambs-quarters (wild-harvested seed) among others.

Research is great, but don't drive yourself crazy (been there, done that, as I have a tendancy to overthink things lol). There is no perfect pasture mix, no 'only right way' to raise sheep. Read and learn, but do what works for you and your sheep. I feed a 14% concentrate. I tried adding soybean meal but the sheep didn't eat it, so I quit that. A friend with a commercial flock feeds corn, but only in late gestation and the first part of nursing. Corn is only about 9% protein. Her sheep are in great shape and she averages over 2 lambs per ewe. I feed a mineral mix, she feeds a kelp/mineral mix. We both feed hay in the winter. Her pastures are more grassy, mine are more weedy. I think she has a better rate of gain than mine do - but we have different breeds, and she's been doing this much longer.

Can you get close enough to your sheep to body condition score them? Google the process for some good pictures and explanations if you haven't seen it already. That will help you keep track of how your sheep are doing.

I think you're doing great. When are your sheep due to start lambing? Did you (or will you) vaccinate them about a month before due dates? Got your lambing supplies together? Lambing can drive you a special kind of crazy. My first year, I think I memorized every malpresentation possible! But both deliveries were perfectly normal. I'm sure your sheep will do fine, and you'll do your very best for them.

 

[soarwitheagles]

Thanks for your reply norseofcourse!

I like to do lots of reading and join lots of forums so I can learn and hopefully avoid lots of mistakes. I believe wisdom is found in the multitude of counsel.

I am beginning to realize more and more just how ignorant I have been! My idea was to purchase some sheep, put up a fence, celebrate because I know longer have to mow the fields [up to 6 hours per week at times], and 9 months later, miraculously find some nice lamb roast cooked and ready to eat on my table! Now I am beginning to see more and more I was in dreamland.

The same thing happened after obtaining our first beehive. I thought you simply put the bees in the box, come back a few months later, and eat all the honey you want for the rest of your life!

So, live and learn and in these specific adventures, learn a lot!

I will google body condition score later today. I did some reading about it, but I need a refresher course before I actually do it. The sheep appear super healthy right now.

Some ewes are due any day. Other ewes, in a few weeks. Two ewes, I think in May [I saw our male ram doing his hanky panky on these two ewes this week]. I have not made our lambing kits yet. Thank you for the reminder. Will do it this week.

No shots given for prebirth time frame [each ewe is in different stages of pregnancy and I have no clue when they will drop the lambs]. Was thinking of waiting and giving the shots to the lambs.

Presently we are feeding the sheep approximately 1lb. of grain every two days. I found a wonderful deal on grain at Tractor Supply after someone dumped some type of ink on a bunch of 50lb bags of grain. Each bag was 20% off. But I read the grain should offer 16% minimum protein, and the TS grain does not meet this need.

Today, I am driving to Elk Grove Milling. They have a Sheep Mix that is well known and well liked and is shipped all over the nation. Here is what they say about it:

Sheep Mix™
Click here to print the Sheep Mix™ feed tag

Sheep Mix™ is a complete pelleted feed that contains all the daily requirements of vitamins and Zinpro minerals sheep need with no added copper. Sheep Mix™ is specially formulated for sheep, 16% protein, 3% fat and is a 5/32” pellet, easier for the sheep to eat. Can be fed to goats.

FEEDING DIRECTIONS

Specially designed for sheep. Feed at 1lb to 1.5lbs per 100lbs of the animal’s weight each day. Provide fresh, clean water at all times except to hot, tired animals. Store feed in a cool, dry place.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:

Crude Protein Minimum 16.0%
Crude Fat Minimum 3.0%
Crude Fiber Maximum 20.0%
Ash Maximum 4.5%
Calcium Maximum 0.9%
Phosphorus Minimum 0.4%
INGREDIENTS:

Alfalfa Hay, Soybean Meal, Distillers Dried Grains , Almond Hulls, Rice Bran, Mix Hay, Cane Molasses, Salt, Ground Limestone, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium and Dicalcium Phosphate, Sodium Selenite, Magnesium Oxide, Mineral Oil, Zinc Sulphate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Cobalt Carbonate

So this is my plan for now. Sure hope it works. The rancher who sold these sheep to us is now a really good friend. He told us to expect twins and triplets from most of the ewes. Wow, I suppose the flock will experience significant growth and I kinda like that.

 

[Bossroo]

UCD has irrigated pastures so clovers grow lush and for much longer into fall then reseed and go dormant . Do you have irrigated pastures? If dryland, clovers will form seed then go dormant by late May . I would also pland a cerial crop such as barley in late Oct.,that grows very well in our mild winters and will stand a fair amount of grazing at 6+" high and grow fast enough to provide additional dry feed during the dry no rain time of Summer. The endophyte free fescue is a perannual, so will go dormant in late May and will provide lots of winter forage also the clovers too.

 

[soarwitheagles]

That sounds like a plan!

Do you generally feed them the grain about the same time of day? If so, use that, too. Say for example you feed them at 4pm, and you only want them in the pastureland for 15 minutes - then let them into the pastureland about a quarter till 4 the first day. At 4, do the grain routine. If you vary the time of day you feed the grain, this may not matter as much.

How much grain do you give them? They'll be coming in with their bellies fuller than normal with new food, so if you can decrease it while still giving them just enough to be happy to come in for grain, that might not be a bad thing.

Sheep generally learn routines quickly, especially if they involve food. Think of a backup plan just in case, and good luck!

UCD has irrigated pastures so clovers grow lush and for much longer into fall then reseed and go dormant . Do you have irrigated pastures? If dryland, clovers will form seed then go dormant by late May . I would also pland a cerial crop such as barley in late Oct.,that grows very well in our mild winters and will stand a fair amount of grazing at 6+" high and grow fast enough to provide additional dry feed during the dry no rain time of Summer. The endophyte free fescue is a perannual, so will go dormant in late May and will provide lots of winter forage also the clovers too.

Norseofcourse,

Been feeding these sheep about one pound of grain every other day. My neighbor suggested I only give about a cup per day per sheep otherwise, could be lots of breech births due to over sized lambs. I like your idea of establishing a grain routine.

Bossroo,

It sounds as if you live locally here! Is it true? We planted dryland pasture, but I am considering irrigating anywhere from .5 up to 2 full acres. But some friends tell me that can get expensive and not worth it. I will probably experiment with small areas first and see how it goes.

I am kicking myself in the tail because I did not plant more fava beans...This is the first year I have ever experimented with planting fava beans. We planted a 30'x25' area and obtained a 100% sprout rate! Now I wish I had simply planted a full acre or more. The reason is the cost is for seed only [naturally occuring rainfall from Nov. - March]. I read a few articles about how fava beans/plants make an incredibly rich silage. We would harvest the plants and while they plants are still fresh, run them through a chipper, then cover the chopped up fava beans/plants with plastic. Then it ferments and makes an incredibly protein rich supplement and the cost would be almost free! We discovered this year that fava beans grow well Nov.-March with no water at all. Wow, what an incredible return for simply planting them! I am so glad we experimented this year. We hope to plant a lot more for next year.

I will look into the cereal crops you have mentioned. Are there other options beside the barley and the fescue?

Finally, where do you live?

Thanks,

Soar

 

[Bossroo]

Soar... Since you asked, I grew up in Davis, Cal. Retired and now we live in a small town in SW Washington. I believe that when one starts any endevor one should make a profit so choose one that not only gives one pleasure but makes one a PROFIT. While a hobby with pets , or feel good animals is a guaranteed moneypit. The barley and endofite free fescue probably are the easiest and least expensive feed that you can raise under your climatic and land conditions. There are probably others, but do a small scale run first. You can try a sprouted barley untill it grows to several inches tall and feed all types of animals, but it is a little pricy to set up as it requires a refrigerated room and a hydroponic type set up to sprout and grow it for a few days before it is fed year round, but cheep to do later. I would recommend that you feed the grain daily, but the quantity fed you should vary depending on the sheeps' body condition, number and size of lambs being suckled, amount and quality of forage , season of the year, stop grain when weaning for about 2 weeks, they start again to flush the ewes for being rebred. Creep feed the lambs for maximum gain as soon as they start to eat , then increase the amount prior to sales. Keep your ram seperate from the ewes to concentrate the lamb crop in a short a time as possible. Lambs born out of the majority of the other lambs tend to NOT do well and sell at a discount, if sell at all. I would seperate the 2 Dorper ewe lambs immediatly away from the ram if they are not bred already since they could start cycling much earlier then the black bellies. ` As for silage... Several years ago , a firm in Texas made a huge campaign at deap dicount in the Fresno area for their bagged silage for all types of livestock. I baught 4 bags to feed to my 32 horses. I gave a small amount of the silage to each horse in the morning and before I fed them their grain and hay. Not a single one would eat it past a trial nibble. Not even when not fed anything else for 24 hrs. . Total BUST !!!. Hogs and cows, especially dairy cows, eat it well. 8 months later they pulled out of the area as sales were quite low and the feed stores stoped reordering it. For your reading pleasure : " Sheep Science" by William Garfield Kamlade professor of sheep husbandry U of Ill. JD Liooincitt Co.1947 you probably can find it at a library. One of the best information books around in the US sheep haydays . The textbook used to teach animal husbandry at the University level, "Animal Agriculture" by HH Cole and WN Garrett second edition WH Freeman and co. 1974. I have worked for HH Cole and for or with some of the UCD authors listed in this book. Enjoy !!!

 

[soarwitheagles]

Bossroo,

After reading your posted credentials, I wanted to find the nearest hole and climb quickly into it!

My goodness, you have such an incredibly rich heritage and background and experience with animal husbandry. My animal husbandry consists of 4 hamsters when I was in 4th grade [they ate each other], a couple of pigeons in 5th grade, a dog in middle school, and then a 35 year break from all animals.

Oh, I almost forgot...we did pick up some chickens when we moved to this ranch...

So in all honesty, I am less than a preschooler when it comes to understanding and caring for animals...

I am so happy there is a website like this [BYH] and I am also so happy there are people like you that hang out here!

I will separate the Dorpers as you have suggested as soon as I can build another sheep pen.

I am now glad we started small time on the fava beans. We can now experiment and see if the sheep will like them.

Speaking of experiments...today I decided to "mow" and collect some of the new pastureland we planted. I was so excited to see what the sheep would do with it. Mowed the field, caught the grass and clover and forbs in the back of the mower, and then threw some in the grain box in the sheep pen...then watched carefully to see and observe what would happen...

Good news: the sheep came over and began to eat the freshly cut grass and clover and forbs mixture. They finished the first batch in a couple of minutes, so I threw in another small batch of this mixture. They ate that too. Finally, threw in a third round and they went at it again. Finally, fearing the much read about and dreaded BLOAT, I refrained from feeding them anymore. But I did cut a lot more to feed them tomorrow and for the next few days. This is beginning to be so exciting. Now I cannot wait to turn them out to pasture. I will be careful to take everyone's advice to do it a little at a time.

Thanks again everyone for your help!

Soar

PS posted pics of the sheep and the freshly cut grass and clover and forbs mixture.

 

[Bossroo]

Looking at the photo that you just posted, and them being pregnant , they need an increase in their body condition, I would increase their grain ration pronto. Feed that green stuff sparingly ( after you full feed them their hay and grain ration just give them enough for them to clean up within 15 min )or they will shoot it out of their rear ends like out of a hose as their gut bacteria are not used to fresh green feed. Edit to add : I would say that it would be wise to limit the amount of different animals that you keep on your ranch. Sheep and chickens ( go with the specialists : Cornish X for meat and Leghorns or their derivatives for eggs. The so called dual purpose ones are only mediocre for each catagory and take too much time as well as labor) are fine, but increasing to other species and noone will be able to thrive as they should... Remember the old Scottish proverb ... " The eye of the master fatens the cattle. " This applies to all animals that one keeps.