Keeping Meat Rabbits

[BoboFarm]

I'm new to the site and to keeping rabbits. I've been looking up information on keeping meat rabbits and I would like some advice. I'm going to build a 10' x 20' rabbit shed with a concrete floor. I want two trios of Californians or New Zealands. I want the does in each trio to be littermates so I can keep them colony style. I would keep the bucks alone. The does would be transferred to the buck pen when I want them to breed. I plan on a 3.5' x 6' pen for each buck and a 6' x 6' pen for each pair of does. These pens would be directly on the concrete floor with a layer of straw or pine shavings. I do not like the idea of keeping them in a wired cage. If I had to I could split the doe pen so that each doe would have a 3' x 6' pen. The pens would have 5ft walls of hardware cloth between them. I plan on processing litters at about 10-12 weeks of age.

Here are my questions:

Does the amount of space per rabbit sound ok?
Does anyone have experience keeping rabbits in a concrete floored pen? If so, what are the pros and cons?
Do I need a growout pen? Or can litters stay with mom until processing without the fear of the bucklings breeding sisters or back to mom?
Should I give access to outside in a covered run with buried hardware cloth?

It gets fairly warm in the summers with daytime temps reaching 100 for at least a few days and staying over 90 for much of the summer. I plan on having a swamp cooler in the shed for those really hot days. We don't have to worry too much about humidity problems as it's extremely dry here in Nevada. There would also be plenty of ventilation and windows. I think the concrete would help keep the rabbits cool in the summer and will allow for easier cleaning.

 

[Pastor Dave]

Sounds like you have it fairly thought out except the does will determine dominance and fighting is almost inevitable. I personally don't like colony style.

 

[promiseacres]

Pens a plenty big, could definitely divide to keep does seperate. Some have successfully had colonies but space and areas where they can get away seems to help. Rabbits that are raised in a colony do better than typical cages. If you plan on rebreeding after kits are weaned then definitely reccomend a grow put cage. Mom needs time to recover and won't have same nutritional needs.

 

[BoboFarm]

Thanks for the replies, @Pastor Dave & @promiseacres

If the does decide to not play nice I will separate the pens. I do not plan on back-to-back breedings. Since I plan on processing at 10-12 weeks, is it ok to keep everyone together? What age will rabbits start breeding? If necessary, I guess I could put a hanging cage in the back of the doe pens to keep weanlings in until it's time to process.

 

[Pastor Dave]

If I get busy and can't butcher at 10 weeks, the litter gets sexually active at abt 11-12 weeks. I usually like to wait 6 mos to breed a young doe. Her prime is really only up to abt 2-3 yrs old. Many can go til 4. I wait abt til then on my bucks too; 6 mos. Different opinions vary according to producer and breeder.

If the doe is not separate from the buck, like in a colony setting, he will rebreed her right after kindling. She will not have time to let her litter wean before kindling the next. I generally do 4 or 5 litters per doe yearly. Some do 6 or more, but it wears them out fast.

In reference to your earlier post, Promiseacres has it right. I am sure the rabbits prefer more free range atmosphere like chickens. I just believe the control the breeder has is greatly limited. The rabbits and kits would be way more timid and probably hard to catch. Females are the dominant sex and will fight for space and dominance. This is all things breeders have witnessed and reported. I am not experienced in this. I guess I just prefer my methods for what I am trying to achieve.

 

[Bossroo]

If I get busy and can't butcher at 10 weeks, the litter gets sexually active at abt 11-12 weeks. I usually like to wait 6 mos to breed a young doe. Her prime is really only up to abt 2-3 yrs old. Many can go til 4. I wait abt til then on my bucks too; 6 mos. Different opinions vary according to producer and breeder.

If the doe is not separate from the buck, like in a colony setting, he will rebreed her right after kindling. She will not have time to let her litter wean before kindling the next. I generally do 4 or 5 litters per doe yearly. Some do 6 or more, but it wears them out fast.

In reference to your earlier post, Promiseacres has it right. I am sure the rabbits prefer more free range atmosphere like chickens. I just believe the control the breeder has is greatly limited. The rabbits and kits would be way more timid and probably hard to catch. Females are the dominant sex and will fight for space and dominance. This is all things breeders have witnessed and reported. I am not experienced in this. I guess I just prefer my methods for what I am trying to achieve.

2X, also, thing of all of the pathogens that are hiding in the wet urine spots, feces piles, and other hidy holes. Then the resulting Vet bills as well the much longer time to grow to weaning waight. NOT worth it just to satisfy some fantasy notion.

 

[Bunnylady]

I know some folks manage to keep colonies, and are happy with the results; I have never tried it (not on the floor, at least). My specific concern is the concrete floor. Concrete is porous, and some of the urine is going to soak into it. Before long, you may find that the shed always has a slight (or maybe, not so slight) ammonia smell. There may be some product that can be used to seal the floor, that is safe for constant contact by animals, but I don't know what it is. Something to look into, at any rate.

 

[Tale of Tails Rabbitry]

I have the same concerns as everyone who responded so I will not relist what has been said, but I will add two:

1. Depending on the concrete finish itself, which would probably tend to be a bit slick from a rabbit's point of view, you might end up with some or all your kits developing splayed legs. Not much meat on hindquarters of a splayed-leg fryer. Also, I would think it would not be that good for the legs and hips of the senior rabbits either.
   
2. I would think that cleaning would be more labor intensive and need to be done more frequently rather than less as having them up on wires.

 

[BoboFarm]

I'm back after a long, busy weekend.

@Pastor Dave I will be waiting until the does and bucks are 6 months old before breeding. I also plan on processing does and bucks after three years of breeding. Bucks won't be kept with does because I want more control of breeding. I don't want does to be perpetually pregnant. I'll be caring for them twice daily whether they're in cages or on the ground so I don't know how much more timid being in a colony will make them. They're not going to be pets so I don't need a cuddly bunny to spend time with.

@Bossroo The concrete will have a layer of pine shavings that will help absorb urine. I'll be in the shed twice a day to spot clean and replace shavings as needed. I don't believe this is a fantasy notion of mine. I believe animals in our care should be respected and cared for with as much consideration for mental health as well as physical health. I am making the decision to keep them for my own use. The least I can do is make them comfortable. I don't think living in a cage is comfortable so I'm making the decision to try something different by keeping them in a pen with a bit more space and something softer to bed down in. If it doesn't work then I'll change it up. Trying a colony is in no way saying that those that keep their rabbits in cages is wrong, just not for me.

@Bunnylady Thanks for your insight into the smell in the concrete. We have used kennel sealer for our dog kennels in the past and plan on using it for the rabbits.

@Tale of Tails Rabbitry The sealer that we use is non-slip. Why would cleaning be any different in a colony vs in a cage?

I understand I'm going against conventional thinking here but, as I said above, I believe I can give my rabbits a better life by keeping them out of wire-bottomed cages. I've had dogs all my life and would not think for a minute to keep them in a cage the way rabbits are conventionally kept. That would be akin to a puppy mill. I don't mean to play devil's advocate. I'm just trying to learn and get opinions.

 

[Tale of Tails Rabbitry]

I am sorry you feel that you that we have been discouraging. Truth is...I actually would LOVE for your concrete floor idea to work well! I just think that there is a reason that it is not commonly done by rabbit keepers with far more experience than I have.

I also have reservations because we once tried a "non-slip" but smooth surface kind of thing well covered with hay in a nesting area and ended up with about a 1/4 to 1/3 of the kindles developing with splayed legs. I know it can be a birth defect, but it was not. The kits were not born that way and we never had it before or since breeding the same rabbits on wires. What will happen is that the pine shavings will get moved around and they will be directly on the concrete. If it is non-slip enough, it will not cause the problem. If it isn't, you will know.

Also, if a rabbit gets spooked or is just frolicking on a surface too slick, it can injure its back. The second rabbit I had as a pet did this and was paralyzed from it. I could see a rabbit taking off, sliding on the pine shavings quite easily.

From my experience with both, I would say that a dog handles smooth "non-slip" surfaces much better than a rabbit. A rabbit has fur covering its paws completely, so they will tend to slip and concrete does not allow them to have traction with their nails either. I think you would do better to lay wire down on top of the concrete, but that might undermine your what you were hoping to accomplish.

As to cleaning, you just described that you could be spot cleaning and replacing soiled pine shavings up to twice a day. When rabbits are up on wires, this is not a common necessity, so that is a big difference. I think I have to watch with a couple of cages because those rabbits pull more hay down than they eat and it can build up in a corner that will get soiled, but that happens at most about once a week in between our deep cleanings.