CntryBoy777
Herd Master
Great info @Alaskan , really appreciate ya sharing that info...I sure have them bookmarked....
Latestarter's ramblings/musings/gripes and grumbles.
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babsbag
Herd Master
Or you can live where I do and not worry about increasers, decreasers, or invaders as we have no soil. I grow rocks. Good thing that goats aren't much into grazing. I am going to try and grow Tagasaste for my goats to browse on.
I paid about 500.00 for a quarter of a steer cut a wrapped. That works when you have no pasture.
I paid about 500.00 for a quarter of a steer cut a wrapped. That works when you have no pasture.
greybeard
Herd Master
"Soil is soil"..
Not really..or more aptly, not always and not specifically. Topsoil type is determined by geology, erosion, sediment and...what is grown on it. It changes over time, and if man is involved, we aren't talking about long geological periods of time.
I've farmed, traveled, and ranched from West Texas to East Texas, and West Texas is probably about the same as it was 150 years ago, and not likely to change a whole lot any time soon. East Texas tho, is a different story. Originally, much of East Texas was covered in virgin pine forest, much of it long leaf pine and looked like this:
https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/aldridge/images/loggingmain.jpg
and this. (actually an Alabama picture, but East Texas except for the Big Thicket looked exactly the same):
You could easily ride a horse thru it, or even a wagon. No underbrush, just rich clean soil covered in grass. Hundreds of thousands of acres. When the logging boom ended in the late 1930s, most of the land looked like this:
https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/aldridge/images/stumps.jpg
This, was very rich soil, formed by thousands of years of tall pines. The stumps were removed, and cotton & corn was farmed extensively thru out East Texas until WW2.
With the forests gone, wind and water erosion took away the rich top soil, and thru most of East Texas, a leached out clay soil was prevelant, and remains that way today. In many places, that soil was replaced by substrata of depleted iron ore..a red messy clay. In my area, it's a tight silty light colored clay, interspersed with red clay.
The problem with the NRCS/USDA soil type maps for East Texas is the relatively large tracts each area encompassed, as well as the age of the maps. Many were first done before and immediately after the old growth longleaf pine forest was harvested, and most of the soil types have changed dramatically in the interim because of that harvesting and the (mostly) cotton cultivation that followed in the mid to late 19th century and into the early decades of the 20th century.
Many of the Texas maps still being used, were originally done in the 1930s, some just based on 1800s journals of various naturalists, tho a renewed USDA effort was undertaken in the 1970s and 80s to update them. Even the updates tho, did a woeful job.
If you look at each map, you will see 2 things that should stand out. I will use one that Alaskan linked to for illustration:
1. The note that is on the bottom of every one of these soil type maps:
2. The scale. Will the map's info get you in the ballpark regarding your soil type? Yes..maybe, but only if you swing a mighty bat. 1:253,440 is a heck of a ballpark.
If the '1' correlates to one inch, that's 4 miles.
My own area here in San Jacinto county..My property is approximately where the blue and red rectangle is and is 124 acres. It is reported to be a (1) which is Pinetucky-Doucette. Very little of it is. It ranges, depending where you are on the property, from a tight light loamy silty clay, to blackland gumbo, to rich well balanced loamy bottomland.
You can work with what soil and vegetation you see and guess at the soil by what these maps show or you can just have a soil assay done, (if a larger parcel, submit individual samples, not a composite sample) get rid of the junk flora, remediate your soil accordingly as the sample(s) results suggest and either plant any of the developed forages or take advantage of the natural forages already growing.
Not really..or more aptly, not always and not specifically. Topsoil type is determined by geology, erosion, sediment and...what is grown on it. It changes over time, and if man is involved, we aren't talking about long geological periods of time.
I've farmed, traveled, and ranched from West Texas to East Texas, and West Texas is probably about the same as it was 150 years ago, and not likely to change a whole lot any time soon. East Texas tho, is a different story. Originally, much of East Texas was covered in virgin pine forest, much of it long leaf pine and looked like this:
https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/aldridge/images/loggingmain.jpg
and this. (actually an Alabama picture, but East Texas except for the Big Thicket looked exactly the same):
You could easily ride a horse thru it, or even a wagon. No underbrush, just rich clean soil covered in grass. Hundreds of thousands of acres. When the logging boom ended in the late 1930s, most of the land looked like this:
https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/aldridge/images/stumps.jpg
This, was very rich soil, formed by thousands of years of tall pines. The stumps were removed, and cotton & corn was farmed extensively thru out East Texas until WW2.
With the forests gone, wind and water erosion took away the rich top soil, and thru most of East Texas, a leached out clay soil was prevelant, and remains that way today. In many places, that soil was replaced by substrata of depleted iron ore..a red messy clay. In my area, it's a tight silty light colored clay, interspersed with red clay.
The problem with the NRCS/USDA soil type maps for East Texas is the relatively large tracts each area encompassed, as well as the age of the maps. Many were first done before and immediately after the old growth longleaf pine forest was harvested, and most of the soil types have changed dramatically in the interim because of that harvesting and the (mostly) cotton cultivation that followed in the mid to late 19th century and into the early decades of the 20th century.
Many of the Texas maps still being used, were originally done in the 1930s, some just based on 1800s journals of various naturalists, tho a renewed USDA effort was undertaken in the 1970s and 80s to update them. Even the updates tho, did a woeful job.
If you look at each map, you will see 2 things that should stand out. I will use one that Alaskan linked to for illustration:
1. The note that is on the bottom of every one of these soil type maps:
2. The scale. Will the map's info get you in the ballpark regarding your soil type? Yes..maybe, but only if you swing a mighty bat. 1:253,440 is a heck of a ballpark.
If the '1' correlates to one inch, that's 4 miles.
My own area here in San Jacinto county..My property is approximately where the blue and red rectangle is and is 124 acres. It is reported to be a (1) which is Pinetucky-Doucette. Very little of it is. It ranges, depending where you are on the property, from a tight light loamy silty clay, to blackland gumbo, to rich well balanced loamy bottomland.
You can work with what soil and vegetation you see and guess at the soil by what these maps show or you can just have a soil assay done, (if a larger parcel, submit individual samples, not a composite sample) get rid of the junk flora, remediate your soil accordingly as the sample(s) results suggest and either plant any of the developed forages or take advantage of the natural forages already growing.
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Alaskan
Herd Master
@greybeard So you wouldn't ever use those soil surveys? the newer one I linked to was done in the 80s I think (don't wanna pull it up again, that file is huge) and sure did look like it had a more detailed soil survey in it.
I think reading the historical stuff, as well as the more modern stuff, gives such a good understanding of the land one is on.
Rather like the history lesson that you just gave.
I think reading the historical stuff, as well as the more modern stuff, gives such a good understanding of the land one is on.
Rather like the history lesson that you just gave.
greybeard
Herd Master
Probably not.
The map you linked to and I posted a picture of the scale of, was compiled in 1987. (date is right above the scale)
I need to know what my soil is like 'today'..not 30 years ago.
I get that info from the soil samples I submit every other year and just by observing it, especially in wet times.
The map you linked to and I posted a picture of the scale of, was compiled in 1987. (date is right above the scale)
I need to know what my soil is like 'today'..not 30 years ago.
I get that info from the soil samples I submit every other year and just by observing it, especially in wet times.
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Thanks to both of you. I'll be doing soil samples for analysis to be sure and then go back for guidance for amendments. It's kinda late right now to check out all the links but I will as soon as I can. I appreciate all of the input Al and GB. Trying to learn without going for a masters or spending 60+ years gaining experience. 
Kind of a crash course on the basics... I imagine I can get some of it figured out in this lifetime. Time will tell.
So I was at the store and they had ears of corn for .25 each. I bought 4 and cooked up 2 this evening for dinner. They were delicious and sweet. Also bought another watermelon and some more peaches. I'm all out of rib eyes and they haven't been on sale in a while. Hope they are soon, I'd like a nice thick juicy steak (at a reasonable price). Golden Corral is advertising (buffet, all you can eat) prime rib and grilled skewered shrimp weekends for $13 & change... Maybe I'll make a drive down to Longview this weekend and partake. That's the closest, or the one in Marshall... I ate at that one once on the way back from Shreveport and wasn't all that impressed.
So I guess I've had a total of between 4-5 inches of rain in the past week and the pastures are now back to very green and very growing and due to that I need to get mowing.![:\](/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/side.png "side :\")
Looks like more possible wet weather is forecast over the next several days. I have noticed the temp has been a bit lower recently, but the humidity has been up. and the sun is coming up later and going down earlier each day 
Fall is coming 
Still a ways off however.
I talked with @goatgurl and have arranged for breeding for my three adult goat girls. As soon as they show they have started heat cycles, I'll bring them back up to her for a prolonged conjugal visit with Choco. Planning on Sept/Oct time frame for Feb/Mar kids. The yearlings are still too young and too small to risk breeding them this fall, and since Choco is their dad, it would be line breeding in any case. I'd consider it if they were old/big enough, just to have a chance of more does to breed when I get my own buck, which I plan for next year, to service all of them. Oh well, hopefully they'll all have twin does and I'll double my herd.
Kind of a crash course on the basics... I imagine I can get some of it figured out in this lifetime. Time will tell.So I was at the store and they had ears of corn for .25 each. I bought 4 and cooked up 2 this evening for dinner. They were delicious and sweet. Also bought another watermelon and some more peaches. I'm all out of rib eyes and they haven't been on sale in a while.
Hope they are soon, I'd like a nice thick juicy steak (at a reasonable price). Golden Corral is advertising (buffet, all you can eat) prime rib and grilled skewered shrimp weekends for $13 & change... Maybe I'll make a drive down to Longview this weekend and partake. That's the closest, or the one in Marshall... I ate at that one once on the way back from Shreveport and wasn't all that impressed.So I guess I've had a total of between 4-5 inches of rain in the past week and the pastures are now back to very green and very growing and due to that I need to get mowing.
Looks like more possible wet weather is forecast over the next several days. I have noticed the temp has been a bit lower recently, but the humidity has been up. and the sun is coming up later and going down earlier each day Fall is coming Still a ways off however.I talked with @goatgurl and have arranged for breeding for my three adult goat girls. As soon as they show they have started heat cycles, I'll bring them back up to her for a prolonged conjugal visit with Choco. Planning on Sept/Oct time frame for Feb/Mar kids. The yearlings are still too young and too small to risk breeding them this fall, and since Choco is their dad, it would be line breeding in any case. I'd consider it if they were old/big enough, just to have a chance of more does to breed when I get my own buck, which I plan for next year, to service all of them. Oh well, hopefully they'll all have twin does and I'll double my herd.
Mike CHS
Herd Master
If you were closer we could definitely fix you up with watermelons and cantaloupe. Your breeding plans sound solid.
CntryBoy777
Herd Master
Dad-gum Joe!!.....that means more Birthing too....just hope your up to all that.....and don't forget about the "Birthing Thread" also.....I remember ya being quite nervous about it before.....
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- #3,040
Actually, I wasn't in the least nervous or worried... I didn't have to do any of the hard "labor"... I mis-remembered that GG had said Dot was a 2nd freshener... In fact she was a FF. But because I thought she was a 2nd timer, I wasn't worried at all. And she did what she was supposed to do with no issues at all - Status
