LGD Behavior Issues

[frustratedearthmother]

I hope the breeder can help you. At only 6 months old I would HOPE he could be rehabilitated - but the chance of your herd being injured just isn't worth trusting him right now. Disrespecting your kids is scary too. I'm certainly not the LGD expert, but every LGD that I've ever owned has been extremely gentle with children.

I don't think it's unusual for a pup to want to chase something, but it sure seems like your guy is reacting to a prey drive - not a "lets have fun" drive. It's good of you to recognize that he just not safe to be unsupervised with your children or your goats. Odd that he's ok with chickens.

If you have the time and the "want-to" to continue to work with him I think @Beekissed suggestion of going back to square one is a good one.

 

[rachels.haven]

Yes, he knows his commands/obedience work. And I am a Ceaser fan so we did do lots of alpha work. Walks and the other basics. He walks on a heel on leash very well. He even discovered a crate in the loft and loves sleeping in as his place, which is his choice not mine, even if we shut him in for the night, which I prefer not to do because I don't need him crate trained beyond basic comfort for emergency situations. We did pick the calmest, most sedate puppy in the litter with the future in mind. He was very sleepy and quite then, and was for a long time. Mom and dad were higher energy though, something I should have made note of. I guess I can put him through a hard boot camp and try letting nothing slip ever for a while.

He has not been being compliant about his obedience commands for the past few weeks. Everything down to the basics has become a battle that I am prepared to win-and do-but it is not easy, definitely making going outside into something to be carefully thought about/weighed. He was only penned for his protection as a tiny puppy, sometimes with goats under our watch, mostly without. (Goats can be mean to puppies). The time he caught and chewed a goat I was in the yard, down the driveway. Otherwise the goat would have been dead. Now he is mostly on a tether when the kids go out (and is still not trustworthy even if he looks calm). I'll do that with the goats too with me there, forcing submission and not allowing goat hunting and stalking from the end of a tie out.

Thank you.

 

[rachels.haven]

The breeder said to muzzle him and leave him around goats or give him bones in the goat pen, which he will not care about and in regards to bones and kongs I already use (because food that is worked for is the best, most healthy food). And she says that I should be outside in the barn more, which isn't possible because I'm already outside most of the day often with the prek kid regardless of weather. Then she asked "how he is WITH supervision around goats"...lol, she thinks he's still allowed IN the pen without supervision and that I'm having this problem because I'm not supervising and not constantly intervening?

That was surprisingly disappointing.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

So sorry that was the response you got from her. Very disappointing indeed.

 

[Beekissed]

The breeder said to muzzle him and leave him around goats or give him bones in the goat pen, which he will not care about and in regards to bones and kongs I already use (because food that is worked for is the best, most healthy food). And she says that I should be outside in the barn more, which isn't possible because I'm already outside most of the day often with the prek kid regardless of weather. Then she asked "how he is WITH supervision around goats"...lol, she thinks he's still allowed IN the pen without supervision and that I'm having this problem because I'm not supervising and not constantly intervening?

That was surprisingly disappointing.

Yep....anyone who breeds a dog that requires a muzzle to do his job shouldn't be breeding anything at all. She should be offering to take him back and refund your money, at the very least. No integrity.

They say there are no bad dogs, just bad owners but that's a huge load of hooey. I've known bad people, bad horses, bad cats, bad dogs, etc. There's a bad seed in every species on the planet, if one cares to notice it.

Do your best and then you can do no more. If after you've done the very best you can and he's still not coming around, it's time to make a decision about where to place the dog.

 

[Baymule]

When we lost our beloved Parker to pancreatic cancer, our DD and family gave us a Catahoula half grown pup. He was wonderful, but had a prey drive towards chickens. He was transported into a killing frenzy, driven beyond control, to kill. I tried everything, to no avail. One morning, I watched him digging frantically under a portable chicken coop and I thought, "This is never going to end." I knew right then and there that he was ALWAYS going to kill poultry, no matter what I did. He was hard wired to kill. I made the decision to find him a home with no poultry and the perfect couple showed up and he had a great life with them. He was too good of a dog to put down.

I didn't see @B&B Happy goats post, but I know my twisted sister well, and I can imagine what she said. Probably along the lines of what I am about to say. Anybody that is upset about it, stop here.

This dog is on track to hurt someone. The fact that he is going after your children is disturbing. It's bad enough that he has a hard desire to kill goats, but going after your children is unforgivable. No. He// NO. The breeder said to put a muzzle on him? I would take him back to her and demand my money back. She seemingly KNOWS she is breeding problem dogs, that is scary. I would take him back, money back or not. I know that you have put the time and training in this puppy. His behavior is degrading into a bad dog. I wouldn't find him another home. If the breeder won't take him back, I would put him down. His behavior has gone way past "stupid puppy" stage and is becoming potentially dangerous to your family, not to mention your livestock. How would you feel if you rehomed him, only to find out that he ripped up some child?

There are trainers who claim there are no bad dogs, only bad trainers. I say that is a load of crap. Just like there are crazy horses that would stomp you to death, wild "high headed" cattle that would gore the side of your pick up truck and kill you dead, dead, dead, if they got the chance, there are dogs that will never be fit for the job they were bred and born to do. It is ok if a dog is not LGD material and is only pet quality. It is not ok for that dog to attack children. That is a deal breaker any way you want to look at it. If one of my dogs was attacking my grand children, I'd shoot him myself. I've never shot a dog and it would be awful, but attacking children would sure give me the strength to do it.

Take him back or take him out.

 

[Jesusfreak101]

i second what baymule said there a difference i prey drive towards an animal but there should not be one towards your children. we had two dogs awhile back one for no reason went after my nephew who was over 500 feet away for absolutely no reason he got put down. the other started having strokes or seizures and but his mouth on my five year olds head i picked his ads up and threw him outside and exams her I was right there not even a foot away i would have shot him right then except my husband said he would. i am not for killing animals unless there a darn good reason if this 90 lb dog keeps getting bigger he not going to respect even you possibly then what. the what it's in this bother me no dog is worth the life of a child or the damage they could inflict i am not one for rehab with him. i first thouhght you were talking about goat kids it took a minute to realize it was your babies. don't feel bad he actions have nothing to do with you everything to do with his needed and him. i am so sorry I know how hard it is your hopes for what he could be and how things could be you have full knowledge of how he reacts and it's your desion we just tell you what we would do and i am praying that all goes well for yall i know you will make the desion thats right for your family one way or the other. we on your side.

 

[B&B Happy goats]

I had thought it was goat kid also....
.that certainly changes my thoughts that I had shared with you.
Years ago when I was the animal control person in our small town, I had a police officer bring his fully trained police dog to me to put down after it attacked his child......good dogs can go bad.....and some dogs mental wiring is off......just like humans, there are some bad Gene's that can be passed and only one family member gets them or they all get them.
I sure feel for you with your decision making that is in front of you....

 

[Baymule]

Did I read it wrong? The first of the post was definitely goat kids. Then I read it as human kids later in the post.

 

[Jesusfreak101]

i don't know in one posting she said she didn't trust him with her kids pre k age child i thought if i am,wrong i appologize. i am confused now...