greybeard
Herd Master
How many dogs per 100 acres would you need for a large place?
LGD space?
- Thread starter june2013
- Start date
Southern by choice
Herd Master
Depends on several factors.
What kind of livestock and how many head.
Predator level and type of predators.
Straight open 100 acres? heavily wooded? paddocks or separate pastures?
greybeard
Herd Master
1500 acres, mostly clear pasture, with cross fences dividing it up into 50-100 acre pastures, which is why I said "per 100 acres".
Cattle, calves and some goats--all running together. No segregation. Surrounded by about 5000 ac National forest. Home is on extreme edge--not in the center.
Cougars, bobcats, lots of coyotes, feral dogs, feral hogs.
Southern by choice
Herd Master
I wouldn't recommend dogs, or not the livestock guardian breeds. So I don't know. In general dogs are not the best with cattle as cattle generally have a disdain for dogs.
Donkeys may be your best bet but I am not knowledgeable about donkeys and personally don't care for them.
greybeard
Herd Master
One of my nearest neighbors has probably 6-8 lab/shepard mix dogs and his cattle don't bat an eye when the dogs wander out thru the herd--and mine don't when my own dogs wander out amongst mine. The only time m cows get "upset" is when strange or feral dogs come around and start bothering the young calves.
I've seen people here inquire in the past about wanting a family milk cow or raise a calf for beef, and one of the first things I see posted is "You gotta get you a LGD!". To be honest tho, I have never met a single cowman or big goat/sheep ranch owner that has any for their herds and I'll be 65 in a couple months and been around cows and cowmen my whole life.
So basically are "LGD"s are just for much smaller or back yard type endeavors?
I've seen people here inquire in the past about wanting a family milk cow or raise a calf for beef, and one of the first things I see posted is "You gotta get you a LGD!". To be honest tho, I have never met a single cowman or big goat/sheep ranch owner that has any for their herds and I'll be 65 in a couple months and been around cows and cowmen my whole life.
So basically are "LGD"s are just for much smaller or back yard type endeavors?
Southern by choice
Herd Master
No, throughout the world LGD's are used widely. It was always told that you had to have large land and on and on and it simply is not true. The LGD breeds are quite adaptable to different environments.
The issue comes down to not having enough work for the dog. Those dogs get bored and problems arise. The other factor is many small backyard farmers especially, tend to "give it a go" as far as farming but fizzle out quickly and then the dogs end up in shelters and euthanized as they generally are not fit to become a house pet.
Of course here in the states there are smaller and smaller farms and lots of "homestead" type farms... land is pricey, farming is a hard life and we are losing farmers (large scale), there is little $ and lots of hardship therefore many work full time jobs and then come home to a farming job. Ultimately predators do not care how much land a person has or how many head it just does what it does...
In this country sheep ranchers generally utilize the LGD over any other type guardian. Goat farms of course are growing fast and they are next.
Our county is a cattle county along with poultry, setting poultry aside, the cattle farmers here use donkeys. Goat and sheep farmers use dogs, only a handful use llamas.
Personally I don't think everyone should get a guardian... let me say I love them and can't imagine having a farm without them but if you have no predator issues than leave it. Here we have big issues and getting worse. The closest town to me is now being inundated with coyote issues and the sheriffs dept getting calls constantly. They (coyotes) are multiplying quickly and becoming a serious issue not just on the farm but in the suburbs and towns.
You know its bad when you see them dead on the side of the road because cars are hitting them. That is a sign way to many out there.
The only good thing about a coyote... is its pelt!
The issue comes down to not having enough work for the dog. Those dogs get bored and problems arise. The other factor is many small backyard farmers especially, tend to "give it a go" as far as farming but fizzle out quickly and then the dogs end up in shelters and euthanized as they generally are not fit to become a house pet.
Of course here in the states there are smaller and smaller farms and lots of "homestead" type farms... land is pricey, farming is a hard life and we are losing farmers (large scale), there is little $ and lots of hardship therefore many work full time jobs and then come home to a farming job. Ultimately predators do not care how much land a person has or how many head it just does what it does...
In this country sheep ranchers generally utilize the LGD over any other type guardian. Goat farms of course are growing fast and they are next.
Our county is a cattle county along with poultry, setting poultry aside, the cattle farmers here use donkeys. Goat and sheep farmers use dogs, only a handful use llamas.
Personally I don't think everyone should get a guardian... let me say I love them and can't imagine having a farm without them but if you have no predator issues than leave it. Here we have big issues and getting worse. The closest town to me is now being inundated with coyote issues and the sheriffs dept getting calls constantly. They (coyotes) are multiplying quickly and becoming a serious issue not just on the farm but in the suburbs and towns.
You know its bad when you see them dead on the side of the road because cars are hitting them. That is a sign way to many out there.
The only good thing about a coyote... is its pelt!
greybeard
Herd Master
I've known quite a few people who used donkeys (burros) and they work great as long as it's a jenny or a jack that's been gelded. Never use a intact jack. Too many kids on this board for me to go into the "why" details.
OneFineAcre
Herd Master
wornoutmomto3
Chillin' with the herd
Where is this list of LGD breeds? I live on five acres with four dogs already. One of which already acts as predator defense. He is a German Shepherd/Collie mix. Our big issue here is coyotes and he has kept them away since moving here last year. We have another "who knows what she is mixed with" puppy that we are training as well. The other two work best as house dogs. They are a Corgi and a Corgi/Basset mix. We have a thing for unwanted animals. Most of our animals are "unwanted" rescues, from dogs to cats to chickens. We are looking into goats next.
Southern by choice
Herd Master
There is a relatively long list however many are not really LGD's but more protectors.
The most common LGD's in the states are
Anatolian Shepherd Dog
Great Pyrenees
Maremma
Kommondorok
Karakachan
Sarplaninac (very few used as LGD's in the states)
Polish Tatra Sheepdog
Your current dogs are herding breeds and though they may bark and deter they are not really capable of taking out coyotes. As herding dogs they are also opposite of the nature of a LGD. LGD's have low prey drive, move slowly, bond with livestock and territory, are very much a primitive type dog that is not an obedience dog but think for themselves, make their own decisions. Hard headed, obstinate, loving, fearless, fierce, big babies! They are also nocturnal. Herding dogs behave quite differently and are quick moving withhigh prey drive.
Something you will need to consider when/if you get goats. They do not mix well. LOL Most that use their herding dogs for their livestock use the dog and then the dog is separated from the goats.
We have 7 - 2 Anatolians, 5 Great Pyrenees, and currently 10 puppies. They protect all our goats and poultry and property and everything they think is theirs.
Our housedogs and property dogs are German Shepherd Dog , and a mutt.
The most common LGD's in the states are
Anatolian Shepherd Dog
Great Pyrenees
Maremma
Kommondorok
Karakachan
Sarplaninac (very few used as LGD's in the states)
Polish Tatra Sheepdog
Your current dogs are herding breeds and though they may bark and deter they are not really capable of taking out coyotes. As herding dogs they are also opposite of the nature of a LGD. LGD's have low prey drive, move slowly, bond with livestock and territory, are very much a primitive type dog that is not an obedience dog but think for themselves, make their own decisions. Hard headed, obstinate, loving, fearless, fierce, big babies! They are also nocturnal. Herding dogs behave quite differently and are quick moving withhigh prey drive.
Something you will need to consider when/if you get goats. They do not mix well. LOL Most that use their herding dogs for their livestock use the dog and then the dog is separated from the goats.
We have 7 - 2 Anatolians, 5 Great Pyrenees, and currently 10 puppies. They protect all our goats and poultry and property and everything they think is theirs.
Our housedogs and property dogs are German Shepherd Dog , and a mutt.
