Linda Parelli video, working with one-eyed horse...

[duckluck]

dianneS wrote:

I really lost a lot of respect for the whole Parelli phenomenon when I heard about the whole helmet saga.

I am absolutely with you there!

Seconded. I also strongly disliked their advice on curing a horse of biting. (Basically, wait for the horse to bite, and have a carrot ready in place of your tender flesh; they'll be pleasantly surprised by the carrot and never bite again!) I don't think it was actually given by one of the Parellis, but it was on their site and they defended it when someone emailed them about it.

Why does this not surprise me? I often wonder if these Parellites even work with real horses.

The Parelli's cure for cribbing, although its not a training technique, and it does make sense, just isn't realistic in a chronic cribber.

Pat Parelli says that cribbing is caused by digestive issues and since a horse can't burp, it cribs to relieve the discomfort. While this does make sense and could be the initial cause of cribbing. All of the dietary changes, digestive aids and whatnot are not going to cure a chronic cribber that has a deeply ingrained habit.

I just wonder if Pat Parelli has ever dealt with a real cribber before? I could see using his suggestions to prevent a cribbing habit before it starts, but I just don't see it curing a chronic cribber.

I've lost a lot of respect for the whole Parelli thing, period, and I used to be a staunch supporter of the method. Some of the methods, the core methods, are sound, but I personally think it's gone off the deep end myself.

 

[duckluck]

I have never been impressed with the Parelli training methods, mainly due to the people I have personally come across that are self proclaimed "Parelli trainers" have been quite incompetent. I guess after seeing this I guess they WERE trainers by that standard...

:/

I agreee. I've had the same experiences with "Parelli trainers"

I really lost a lot of respect for the whole Parelli phenomenon when I heard about the whole helmet saga.

Long story short, they were questioned as to why no one wears helmets in their videos and there was some sort of response issued in the regard that relying on a helmet is a crutch of sorts and if you have a good bond with your horse and your horse is properly trained you shouldn't have to rely on additional gear for safety. It was pretty ridiculous. I'm paraphrasing of course but that was the general idea.

It absolutely is ridiculous. That's like saying an excellent driver has no need whatsoever to wear their seat belt because they won't need it to save their life. People can be excellent riders and have excellent horses, but things happen outside of the norm all the time. Equipment can break and ground can give too. We don't live in a perfect world and so we use safety equipment.

 

[dianneS]

I agree that the Parelli thing has gone off the deep end. Their core techniques are good, but it just seems like its all about money and fame now.

I bought a few used DVD's of theirs and thank heaven they were used and I didn't pay full price! They were informative, but the cost of their materials is outrageous! Unless you pay $20 a month to belong to their "Savvy club". And the cost of those tickets to their "rock concert" style horse clinics! Unbelievable how much they want for a ticket, just to try and draw you into their phenomenon so you spend more money!

 

[greenfamilyfarms]

If that was MY horse she was doing that to, I would definitely have some ugly things to say. I'm as confused as the horse is. I don't understand the logic behind the yanking and slapping.

 

[SuzannaR]

I have been a massage therapist for people and horses since 1998. I also teach at a massage school and teach advanced coursed for LMT's.

I use Meagher Method of sportsmassage for both people and horses. He only authorized two people to teach his work, Joann Wilson and Robert Altman. They are the ONLY two people he taught his secrets to, although others claim to know his work....many people watched him work, but he kept his secrets to himself. I say this because I took a course from someone who claimed to be taught by Jack Meagher, then I went on to take Jack's course, and it was night and day.

Anyways, Jack has since died, and as far as I know, Robert and Joann aren't teaching right now, but don't take my word for it, do an online search. I did see Joann's name as an applicant for CE provider status with NCTMBA recently, so that is promising. They are the only ones I can whole-heartedly recommend learning from. They both really know their stuff. You will have to travel....

I took all the courses offered and assisted some as well, when Robert and Joann were teaching Meagher Method together. They would not accept an applicant who was not a licensed, practicing massage therapist with a solid background in horses. The course was very intensive, and they didn't want to be defining words or trying to keep people from getting stepped on!

Check out the AMTA's research foundation site...Joann got a grant a few years ago on behalf of the Meagher Institute and did some cool massage research using horses.

I put in my CE provider application as well, and may teach an equine course myself.

Oh, and the VA course....I met two other therapists who took it, then took the Meagher Method workshops. They both panned the course. They both said they learned more in one day with Robert and Joann than in the entire course in VA. Just going by what I was told. There is also a course near me in CT that has been offered for years that is a big joke. So be careful in what course you choose to take.

I am really not familiar with what else is out there, so I can only speak from my own experience and from the experience of people who I spoke to directly.

Thanks for your comments regarding the other training programs. I've ordered the DVD's that are available on Jack Meagher's work.

Some other programs...I just took Jim Masterson's weekend training and it was great!! www.mastersonmethod.com. I'm also exploring TTouch. www.ttouch.com

Best, Suzanna

 

[freemotion]

Just a word of caution on the dvd's....Jack made those videos and wrote his books when he thought he could teach this work to amateurs. Later, he only taught to licensed MT's who had a thriving practice with humans, as he discovered that these were the only ones who could apply his work correctly. So there are some.....er....inaccuracies in the materials. He says to stimulate the points for something like 5-10 minutes...can't remember....but in his courses, he said 3-5 seconds ONLY. If you are accurate and strong, you can do damage if you work longer than that. The law of diminishing returns. He figured that the horse owner would take 10 minutes and might accidently get the right spot for 3-5 seconds.

And many secrets are not in the published materials, but still LOTS of great information. Love his stuff. Check out the used book sites for Sportsmassage.

 

[dianneS]

I took all the courses offered and assisted some as well, when Robert and Joann were teaching Meagher Method together. They would not accept an applicant who was not a licensed, practicing massage therapist with a solid background in horses. The course was very intensive, and they didn't want to be defining words or trying to keep people from getting stepped on!

I put in my CE provider application as well, and may teach an equine course myself.


I am really not familiar with what else is out there, so I can only speak from my own experience and from the experience of people who I spoke to directly.

Thanks for your comments regarding the other training programs. I've ordered the DVD's that are available on Jack Meagher's work.

Some other programs...I just took Jim Masterson's weekend training and it was great!! www.mastersonmethod.com. I'm also exploring TTouch. www.ttouch.com

Best, Suzanna

I am familiar with Jim Masterson's work. I really like some of his techniques and would like to look into his program further as well. I just wonder if his courses will give me the continuing ed credits that I need?

I like the fact that Joann and Robert only accept working professional therapists though, I think that is great! I did send Joann an email for more information regarding any upcoming courses.

Ooooh, it looks like Jim Masterson also requires certification students to be equine or human massage therapists as well! Excellent!

 

[ducks4you]

Here's more...
http://forum.equisearch.com/forums/t/79193.aspx

 

[w c]

Once a guru type guy told me, 'Beware of self declared flesh and blood saints'.

It looks like there finally are a few cracks in the Parelli armor, but not before they really built an empire and a huge army of cult followers.

Pat and Linda both had a problem. They couldn't cut in in competitive riding, even at the local level, so they had to come up with something else to make money off of. They made a religion out of it. Very successfully. Basically just like L Ron Hubbard, who very early told his friends he was going to make a HUGE pile of money by cooking up a profitable religion.

The koolaid drinkers were able to explain away or justify any danged thing Pat or Linda would do no matter how stupid it looked. If it made people scream foul, it was just because 'they didn't understand all the nuances and subtleties of Parelli method. TO UNDERSTAND, they need to buy carrot sticks, halters, DVD's and more than likely, attend a lot of clinics'.

I'd say be very wary of celebrity trainers. They are in it for the big money, and they love to hear themselves talk. They all have flaws and shortcomings and limitations.

The bottom line is that there is no short cut or substitute or formula that takes the place of practice, experience, learning to ride, and read the horse's reactions. The more mumbo-jumbo-y the explanations get and the more complicated it gets, the farther afield you know you are straying.

Most of them don't have enough respect for their audiences to admit that they are selling a line of hogwash, and sadly, their audiences swallow it. They live off the old PT Barnum saying, 'There's a sucker born every minute'.

 

[adoptedbyachicken]

If you followed the Parelli stuff years ago, the core stuff had some value although I never liked the presentation even then. The price, religion of it, and the rules even telling you how to hang up your halter when your done, whatever, who needed that? Read the original book with a grain of salt and it has some value, the original games do foster respectful groundwork. Don't go any further IMO.

Anyway in this I see the original core of getting attention and respect from the horse, but clearly this horse is not ready for the lesson in the situation given. I know several horses blind in one eye and one in both. I don't feel if the horse was ready to be in the situation that would be a huge factor. Their ability to compensate is amazing as mentioned. This horse is clearly not schooled to EVER pay attention to or respect the space of the human at the other end of the lead shank. I think it's totally unschooled or worse spoiled in this regard. Work needed to start in an area where it has less distraction and work upward to wherever this is.

That this horse has a saddle on is a joke, seriously would any of you get on this horse and ride? There? Anywhere? I don't ride horses that don't have any ground manners, and I certainly would not ride that one there. Probably not anywhere yet.

I don't agree with how Linda handled it, if the horse is not ready take it out. However having been at many clinics (not any with them, but clinics in general) I can say that many horses are brought into clinics that have no place being there. So I also lay blame on the owner, not for what Linda did, only she can take that on, but for what s/he did in showing up way before they had the skills to be there. Untack, get into a place the horse can work, and gradually move up.

I think in the end the horse does show that it's getting the message to stay back and pay attention. There are glimpses there of it doing the right things, however I'm not impressed at all with the other things it might have learned along the way, fear, headshyness, conflict, feeling overfaced by handlers, stress, insecurity.....

JMO from the slice seen there. I'd like to see what lead up to this, or how it went afterward. It is possible this is a very spoiled horse that is ready to be there, or lives there, or works there and really needed the work, but I still don't agree with the escalation. The impression given with the audio makes it seem like day one, first work which really makes me shake my head.