HomesteaderWife
Herd Master
Best wishes to you in this difficult situation. 
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Llorelei Needs Here Own Thread -- She's Doing Terrific
- Thread starter SkyWarrior
- Start date
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- epe llamas mycoplasmas
- Thread starter
- #52
SkyWarrior
Loving the herd life
Last night Terry was too weak to get up. 
Actually, I kind of been expecting this because he had been losing weight. Felt backwards, and yet now that I have him in the barn, I can stuff him full of hay and grain. I can also get a fair idea of how he is doing. Both llamas got their tetracycline shots today.
Llorelei is mad at me big time. I screwed up and hit veins twice with the tetracycline which probably burned like heck. She tried to get up and teach me a lesson. Still too weak, but I have a fighting llama who is mad. She's hating the banamine, the shots, the iron, the looking at her eyes, and other things. She's pooping up a storm, but no diarrhea. Eyes are still indicative of anemia. No apparent fever. Just a weak, annoyed llama. Keep it up girl, and you just may get a whole barn of hay when you get up. I'll buy more bails if these two come around. Those I can replace.
Wormed the goats for good measure today with valbazen. We're back to mud because we had a chinook. Snowed again today and everything is squishy. We're under a winter weather advisory.
I'm still convinced this is Epe, despite the headache with Terry. Llorelei is doing better. Terry is maintaining even though he is not strong enough to stand. I am hoping I can keep these two progressing and alive. It's touchy with the weird weather.
On another note, I've heard of someone back east who lost 37 of the llamas out of a herd of about 180 from Epe. They actually paid to have the EPA run tests on their land because the vets had convinced them there was something endemic to their property. Nope. Epe. Got to love that. Not!!
These poor llamas have had so many wormers thrust into them, I can't believe for a moment that they have worms of any variety. Killing the infection will most likely bring back the red blood cells since the body won't be attacking them any longer. (Shakes head). For those of you with other animals, I want you to be aware that there are similar bacteria that attacks other species' blood. I am sorely tempted if I have ANYTHING wrong with my goats, they get tetracycline.
Actually, I kind of been expecting this because he had been losing weight. Felt backwards, and yet now that I have him in the barn, I can stuff him full of hay and grain. I can also get a fair idea of how he is doing. Both llamas got their tetracycline shots today.Llorelei is mad at me big time. I screwed up and hit veins twice with the tetracycline which probably burned like heck. She tried to get up and teach me a lesson. Still too weak, but I have a fighting llama who is mad. She's hating the banamine, the shots, the iron, the looking at her eyes, and other things. She's pooping up a storm, but no diarrhea. Eyes are still indicative of anemia. No apparent fever. Just a weak, annoyed llama. Keep it up girl, and you just may get a whole barn of hay when you get up. I'll buy more bails if these two come around. Those I can replace.
Wormed the goats for good measure today with valbazen. We're back to mud because we had a chinook. Snowed again today and everything is squishy. We're under a winter weather advisory.
I'm still convinced this is Epe, despite the headache with Terry. Llorelei is doing better. Terry is maintaining even though he is not strong enough to stand. I am hoping I can keep these two progressing and alive. It's touchy with the weird weather.
On another note, I've heard of someone back east who lost 37 of the llamas out of a herd of about 180 from Epe. They actually paid to have the EPA run tests on their land because the vets had convinced them there was something endemic to their property. Nope. Epe. Got to love that. Not!!
These poor llamas have had so many wormers thrust into them, I can't believe for a moment that they have worms of any variety. Killing the infection will most likely bring back the red blood cells since the body won't be attacking them any longer. (Shakes head). For those of you with other animals, I want you to be aware that there are similar bacteria that attacks other species' blood. I am sorely tempted if I have ANYTHING wrong with my goats, they get tetracycline.
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babsbag
Herd Master
Sorry you are still going through this; sick animals are just so hard to deal with, it can really wear a person out emotionally and physically.
I was surprised to read that this is a mycoplasma and that is responds to tetracyline. There are some mycoplasmas that affect goats and there is no cure for it. You can chase it into remission with Tylan but the goat will remain a carrier. Mycos are tough little buggers to kill and it seems that they are on the rise.
I was surprised to read that this is a mycoplasma and that is responds to tetracyline. There are some mycoplasmas that affect goats and there is no cure for it. You can chase it into remission with Tylan but the goat will remain a carrier. Mycos are tough little buggers to kill and it seems that they are on the rise.
- Thread starter
- #54
SkyWarrior
Loving the herd life
Sorry you are still going through this; sick animals are just so hard to deal with, it can really wear a person out emotionally and physically.
I was surprised to read that this is a mycoplasma and that is responds to tetracyline. There are some mycoplasmas that affect goats and there is no cure for it. You can chase it into remission with Tylan but the goat will remain a carrier. Mycos are tough little buggers to kill and it seems that they are on the rise.
You can never really get rid of mycoplasmas (isn't that lovely?) but you can beat them back. Apparently it is a real problem in camelids that nobody talks about in the US mainly because camelids have been misdiagnosed for years because it mimics so many other diseases. Also, there is only one place in the world that tests for this in camelids. That kind of makes it damn near impossible for people to get a handle on it. In 2004, a vet at CSU stated that it was estimated 25% of all camelids have it and 80% of camelids in Colorado have it. The guy I spoke with on the phone who is the breeder who has more experience with this than just about anyone believes that ALL camelids have it. Period. It's just a matter of stress causing it to get them sick.
BTW, for those interested, there are mycoplasmas you need to keep an eye on that infect other animals: http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/circulatory_system/blood_parasites/hemotropic_mycoplasmas.html
Hens and Roos
Herd Master
sending positive thoughts your way
- Thread starter
- #56
SkyWarrior
Loving the herd life
Last night was tough. Terry died. He died with food in his mouth. How messed up is that?
I finally have some answers, though not the ones that will point to the problem. After NINE days of calling the vet for lab results (NINE! I ended up calling after hours and got the vet on call who bugged him to finally call me) I finally have some answers to what it is NOT.
No worms. Nothing in their intestinal tracks that would keep them losing weight. Basically, I was told I had wormy/coccidia laden animals when I didn't.
I mentioned Epe. He said they looked at the blood (read: didn't send it to the only place--Oregon State University--that has half a chance of really evaluating the disease) and didn't see it. More:
Claims that the hay and everything I'm feeding them isn't feeding them. Okaay. Why suddenly? First it was: you're not feeding them enough. Uh, I had both Llorelei and Sid LOOSE in my hay barn for 12+ hours at a time for months. They got plenty. Sid had his teeth floated a couple of months back even though this vet suggested I put him down because he was old.
Okay, then he said: these guys need to forage. Uh, Sid was on hay and grain for 7 years and lived to 21. Llorelei was fat on hay and grain for a year, at least. The new llamas had been in an empty large corral when we got them and were fed hay before we got them. We switched briefly to alfalfa/grass mix which should've actually HELPED them in the colder weather. And what would they eat? Dead knapweed? Houndstongue -- which is poisonous?
He said either that or it's Johnes.
Great.
Johnes has a super long gestation period. A cria that is a bit more than a year isn't going to show signs. And why would it occur all at once? No sense there. We only had the three new ones for a couple of months before this started.
So, we wormed the hell out of my animals for no good reason. He gave them B multivitamin and iron shots, which I had already been doing but didn't listen to me. He took samples and ran them in his own lab and then blames that I don't feed my guys. My goats are all fat! My llamas, which had their own feeder or were loose in the barn WERE fat up until two weeks before Thanksgiving, and then they dropped weight like stones.
I was able to keep the llamas together and see improvement when I started the oxytetracycline. They died each time when the temperature dropped and they couldn't rally, despite putting coats on and other ways to ensure they were warm.
Llorelei was on death's door when the vet saw her two weeks ago. She's gained weight. She's growing her hair back. She's eating. And she's now trying to get up.
At this point, I'm thinking it is epe because I don't yet have a dead cria. The times my animals crashed were during the huge stress of the weather change. Going from 50 degrees and raining with mud to 9 degrees and ice is horrible. Each switch knocked down the defenses. The day-in day-out rain had to screw them up. They lost their coats starting with Rico and going through Terry and Roland. Llorelei was the last to lose her coat and Sid never lost his. (The moment that started I went with lice dust and then to injectible Ivermectin.)
Either that, or I'm dealing with some disease that the three new llamas brought in. Only, there aren't that many diseases that you can point to.
I thought you would like to hear what was happening. I am NEVER going back to that veterinarian. EVER.
I finally have some answers, though not the ones that will point to the problem. After NINE days of calling the vet for lab results (NINE! I ended up calling after hours and got the vet on call who bugged him to finally call me
) I finally have some answers to what it is NOT.No worms. Nothing in their intestinal tracks that would keep them losing weight. Basically, I was told I had wormy/coccidia laden animals when I didn't.
I mentioned Epe. He said they looked at the blood (read: didn't send it to the only place--Oregon State University--that has half a chance of really evaluating the disease) and didn't see it. More:
Claims that the hay and everything I'm feeding them isn't feeding them. Okaay. Why suddenly? First it was: you're not feeding them enough. Uh, I had both Llorelei and Sid LOOSE in my hay barn for 12+ hours at a time for months. They got plenty. Sid had his teeth floated a couple of months back even though this vet suggested I put him down because he was old.
Okay, then he said: these guys need to forage. Uh, Sid was on hay and grain for 7 years and lived to 21. Llorelei was fat on hay and grain for a year, at least. The new llamas had been in an empty large corral when we got them and were fed hay before we got them. We switched briefly to alfalfa/grass mix which should've actually HELPED them in the colder weather. And what would they eat? Dead knapweed? Houndstongue -- which is poisonous?
He said either that or it's Johnes.
Great.
Johnes has a super long gestation period. A cria that is a bit more than a year isn't going to show signs. And why would it occur all at once? No sense there. We only had the three new ones for a couple of months before this started.
So, we wormed the hell out of my animals for no good reason. He gave them B multivitamin and iron shots, which I had already been doing but didn't listen to me. He took samples and ran them in his own lab and then blames that I don't feed my guys. My goats are all fat! My llamas, which had their own feeder or were loose in the barn WERE fat up until two weeks before Thanksgiving, and then they dropped weight like stones.
I was able to keep the llamas together and see improvement when I started the oxytetracycline. They died each time when the temperature dropped and they couldn't rally, despite putting coats on and other ways to ensure they were warm.
Llorelei was on death's door when the vet saw her two weeks ago. She's gained weight. She's growing her hair back. She's eating. And she's now trying to get up.
At this point, I'm thinking it is epe because I don't yet have a dead cria. The times my animals crashed were during the huge stress of the weather change. Going from 50 degrees and raining with mud to 9 degrees and ice is horrible. Each switch knocked down the defenses. The day-in day-out rain had to screw them up. They lost their coats starting with Rico and going through Terry and Roland. Llorelei was the last to lose her coat and Sid never lost his. (The moment that started I went with lice dust and then to injectible Ivermectin.)
Either that, or I'm dealing with some disease that the three new llamas brought in.
Only, there aren't that many diseases that you can point to.I thought you would like to hear what was happening. I am NEVER going back to that veterinarian. EVER.
Hens and Roos
Herd Master
so sorry
Goat Whisperer
Herd Master
Wow. Just wow. 
I understand that vets will not have all the answers but now it seems like he is out of guesses and is blaming it on you/your feeding schedule
I understand not wanting to go back to him.
I am so sorry SW. This has been an huge ordeal. Such a financial, physical, and emotional toll
Very sad to hear about Terry.
Hoping you are nearing the end of whatever is causing these issues.
I understand that vets will not have all the answers but now it seems like he is out of guesses and is blaming it on you/your feeding schedule
I understand not wanting to go back to him. Didn't know that. Interesting, I believe that when goats have Johne's they don't usually show symptoms until they are several years old
I am so sorry SW. This has been an huge ordeal. Such a financial, physical, and emotional toll
Very sad to hear about Terry.
Hoping you are nearing the end of whatever is causing these issues.
Baymule
Herd Master
Wow.....because the vet couldn't come up with a diagnosis (even though you told him what it is) he blames you. What a moron. 
Would you like me to come up there and open up a six pack of Texas whup-ass on him? All you've been through and he blames you for it.
I am so sorry about Terry. Big hugs to you.
Would you like me to come up there and open up a six pack of Texas whup-ass on him? All you've been through and he blames you for it. I am so sorry about Terry. Big hugs to you.
promiseacres
Herd Master
to you
that you've getting the remaining lamas thru itto the vet who doesn't give a d***
