LocoYokel's kindling thread (aka What the ???)

[HaloRabbits]

What breeds are your meat rabbits?
Senior Rabbits around here go for $50 and kits for $20. I bought my starter two for $50 and $35, both unproven and 7 and 6 months old respectively. The doe was bred by a proven buck a couple days before pick up.
Also location could be determinate in the price.

 

[bunny gurl]

Sorry I am behind, we moved the sheep to their new home this weekend.
Sad news, the wee one didn't make it. I also lost one of the mid-sized blacks, it was outside of the box on the wire and with almost freezing temps at night it didn't stand a chance. It seems Tilda was so upset with me that she piddled in the nest so all the kits were spread out: away from the wet but also each other so no body heat shared. I am sure that is why the wee one died, it was small but spry. The black may have just crawled too far or was latched on and drug out.
There was no choice but to clean the nest so I saved as much dry material as I could. After lining the bottom and sides with dry stuff I put that back in with the kits in the center. (Felt like I was making some fancy layered dessert!) Tilda has pulled some more fur to add to it so I hope she is still feeding them. This litter has really put my learning curve to the test...
Tilda was a super mom with her first litter but that was last fall and the nights were not so bitterly cold. There was no need to peek much after that first head count. My checking her box so often this spring has obviously not gone over well with her. Almost all of my rabbit experience has been with proven does, the rules seem to have changed on me (the list is certainly longer) with these junior does!
My next litter is due tomorrow, more on that doe later...
Guess it's a good thing I love to learn because I am getting one heckuva education this spring!

I know it is a little late but for future reference those kits both look like peanuts which is common in any of the dwarf breeds like Netherlands or Holland lops if you have two parent who have the true dwarf gene you risk have peanuts in your litters but you can also have normal litters it is different every time the only thing is to humanely cull them some breeders leave them for nature to take it course but I do not it is not fair knowing they will not make it anyways as they do not having a true working digestive system so it is impossible for them to survive but to foster as well you can do this at any time as long as the kits are about similar size just take a drop of vanilla extract and put it on the foster does nose and slip the kit in the bottom of the nest by the time she can smell something besides vanilla she will be none the wiser I hope this helps for the future

 

[LocoYokel]

What breeds are your meat rabbits?

My meat rabbits are two Checkered Giant does, a D'Argent/CG X doe and my buck is full Silver Fox. I borrow a full Flemish Giant buck sometimes. I saw a trio of registered Silver Foxes for $50, or $20 each on craigslist yesterday. Those are tuff prices to compete with when you have mixed breeds....

@bunny gurl the only dwarf I have is the lionhead but I would like to breed him at some point. Thanks for the info! I rarely breed two does at the same time due to space issues but DH is going to help me set up two more growout hutches.

I am beginning to think that the D'Argent/CG doe (Tilda) isn't quite what was advertized. She is a big doe and this her second litter, both with runts. I think next time I breed her I am going to borrow the Flemish Giant that I used for Ella's litter. I also am going to cut the re-breed time to 6 hours instead of 12 in hopes of more similar sized kits.
I just love Tilda's otter color and she has pretty babies, of course that's not important for a meat rabbit but I am going to try to sell as many as I can before butcher time. I did get some response for the CG/FG X kits but no sales: The bucks owner spoke for the two colored ones and those were the ones folk's were interested in. I am hoping to get some color out of Tilda's breeding to him. He is an Albino.
That also gives me two litters not related to my SF buck so if I keep any does I will start breeding the size down a bit for a better meat type rabbit.
I guess I just have a thing for those big bunz!

 

[HaloRabbits]

Yea FG do not make good meat rabbits but the crosses are used fairly often. NZ x FG is becoming a more popular cross that I am seeing.

 

[bunny gurl]

Yea FG do not make good meat rabbits but the crosses are used fairly often. NZ x FG is becoming a more popular cross that I am seeing.

Flemish are a meat rabbit and I actually have loads of people to buy mine as soon as I have kits available the only thing is sometimes they are too large for certain ppl as they run 22 lbs usually and most ppl only want something 5-7lbs finished

 

[bunny gurl]

My meat rabbits are two Checkered Giant does, a D'Argent/CG X doe and my buck is full Silver Fox. I borrow a full Flemish Giant buck sometimes. I saw a trio of registered Silver Foxes for $50, or $20 each on craigslist yesterday. Those are tuff prices to compete with when you have mixed breeds....

@bunny gurl the only dwarf I have is the lionhead but I would like to breed him at some point. Thanks for the info! I rarely breed two does at the same time due to space issues but DH is going to help me set up two more growout hutches.

I am beginning to think that the D'Argent/CG doe (Tilda) isn't quite what was advertized. She is a big doe and this her second litter, both with runts. I think next time I breed her I am going to borrow the Flemish Giant that I used for Ella's litter. I also am going to cut the re-breed time to 6 hours instead of 12 in hopes of more similar sized kits.
I just love Tilda's otter color and she has pretty babies, of course that's not important for a meat rabbit but I am going to try to sell as many as I can before butcher time. I did get some response for the CG/FG X kits but no sales: The bucks owner spoke for the two colored ones and those were the ones folk's were interested in. I am hoping to get some color out of Tilda's breeding to him. He is an Albino.
That also gives me two litters not related to my SF buck so if I keep any does I will start breeding the size down a bit for a better meat type rabbit.
I guess I just have a thing for those big bunz!

the rebreed time you are using is not going to make a size difference in the kits like that unless she is pregnantin both horns and then she would probably have kits from one side than the second side but you would know if this was the case as she would basically be in labour twice they usually don't kindle both horns at the same time if you are getting the peanuts or runts it is most likely because of several different reasons peanuts are the dwarf gene but runts can be small bunny or if she is small pelvis or her insides can also be small or she could have retained or calcified kits lacking in her diet obesity there are so many things it could be or like you said maybe she isn't what you were told she was

 

[Bunnylady]

just take a drop of vanilla extract and put it on the foster does nose

If you don't want to risk inhalation issues with your doe (can you imagine getting alcohol up your nose? OUCH!), don't bother with the vanilla. In over 30 years of breeding rabbits, I have played put and take in the nest boxes countless times, and never had a doe pay it any attention. If I think a doe is likely to, I make sure to move the kits when she is otherwise occupied, though I have often slipped kits in while a doe is in the box nursing and nobody paid any mind. I suspect the vanilla thing is something passed around by inexperienced breeders who feel they have to "do something" to make it turn out right; experienced breeders have had it work out fine enough times not to bother.

I just love Tilda's otter color

A (Creme?)D'Argent/Checkered Giant can't be Otter; the Tan pattern gene doesn't exist in those breeds. I'm curious about what she actually is . . . ?

Also, if Ella is supposed to be a Checkered Giant, she isn't (well, let's just say that if she is, she has really, really poor type!)

This is a Checkered Giant. They are huge rabbits, but they aren't just big and spotted, they are tall, lanky, slender animals with a lot of daylight under them. For some reason, a lot of people mis-identify any broken patterned rabbit as being a Checkered Giant or an English Spot, when there's really no similarity at all. In Ella's case, I suspect she is mostly New Zealand.

she would basically be in labour twice they usually don't kindle both horns at the same time

They do kindle them all at once; the only time there is any disparity in the birthing times would be when there are days rather than hours in between the two breedings. Occasionally, you may run into a doe that spreads kindling out for other reasons; English Angoras are notorious for kindling over the course of a few days. I had a Jersey Wooly give birth to 3 one day, and a few days later, 3 more, but that was from a single breeding. Most of the time, if a doe doesn't give birth to them all within a few minutes, it's because something is wrong (like a stuck kit).

Kits may be born small for many reasons; one of the simplest is because they implanted close together inside the doe and there wasn't room for their placentas to grow properly. When that's the case, the kits generally grow normally once they are born, and mature to something close to their parents' size.

Underdog bias and all that, but a kit that is born small and doesn't grow right most likely won't make it. You can knock yourself out trying to help them, and they still won't make slaughter weight. Even if they make it past weaning age, their lives are usually short. It may sound heartless, but letting them take the chance of losing the fight during the first few days of life may actually be a kindness, and save you a lot of hassle and heartache later. The worst thing you can do is get so attached that you keep the poorly one, grow it up and breed it - you need to tell yourself that whatever is wrong with that kit, it's not something you want to keep in the gene pool. Older does may produce kits that are "off" just because the doe is older, but I would question the usefulness of a young doe that repeatedly produces babies with "something not right" about them. Kits should be close to the same size when they leave the nest box (within a few ounces, anyway); if this doe regularly rears some huge kits and some tiny ones, I suspect something is wrong with her milk supply.

 

[HaloRabbits]

Flemish are a meat rabbit and I actually have loads of people to buy mine as soon as I have kits available the only thing is sometimes they are too large for certain ppl as they run 22 lbs usually and most ppl only want something 5-7lbs finished

Technically you can use any rabbit for meat.. Majority of people do not use FG for meat because of them having heavier bone. The feed to food ratio is lower with FG than with New Zealands or Californians.

Most people use "fryers" for meat which is usually around 5 lbs and 9-12 weeks old. BUT a 5 lb NZ is going to have more meat than a 5 lb FG. A FG will take longer to get meaty.

So the breeds like NZ and Cali's are often preferred for people who breed solely for meat.

 

[LocoYokel]

the rebreed time you are using is not going to make a size difference in the kits like that unless she is pregnantin both horns

@bunny gurl, I was wondering about that, Thank You, now I don't have to research so much!

A (Creme?)D'Argent/Checkered Giant can't be Otter; the Tan pattern gene doesn't exist in those breeds. I'm curious about what she actually is . . . ?

Me too @Bunnylady!! Suki and Ella are both supposed to be Checkered Giants but I have never been able to find any pics to match. They both look to be the same breed even if they came from two different sources. Very long and heavy bodied, +/- 15 lbs, I really should weigh them sometime... Thank You for the New Zealand tip!! After looking at some pics of the broken NZ's I really see it.

My farmer friend, Gordon, had 5 does and 2 bucks just sitting in cages behind his barn. The DH fixed up my empty hutches and G gave me two does (Tilda n Suki) and the Silver Fox buck. G kept the Flemish Giant buck, which is the one I borrowed for Ella's litter. The two bucks look purebred but the FG seems small for his breed to me, not that I am familiar but from what I have read about breed standards. Now that I see the albinos Ella threw I am wondering if he is all FG. G got all of his rabbits from the same breeder and he was the one who told me what they were. They were the right price, free, so whatever was fine by me! Ella, who looks like Suki was a freebie Easter bun that was no longer so fun two years late, again the right price, and she looks just like my Suki. I just went by what I was told, silly me!!
I have never cared about breeds so much but now that the rabbits are a hobby as well as a food source I seem to be getting into the breed thing more... and I love to learn. Having the resources the internet provides has helped and after reading so much here at BYH I just HAVE to know more!
Guess I will try to get G to take me to the breeder where the bunz came from, that should clear things up a bit... I better take my glasses AND a camera!
My breeders are pets to me and I plan to only breed 2 litters per doe/year so my does should be with me quite a while. I only cull when I have a non-producer ( Suki ) or a really nasty temperament. Speaking of which I need to palpate Suki today, if for nothing else but the practice!
This will actually be the first time I have kept back any kits for future breedings. I want to keep at least a buck out of Ella's batch for now. Who knows what future experiments, uh...breedings, I meant breedings, might bring!
(It sure would be nice to know what I am workin' with now tho... )

Suki:
Ella:
FurNando (buck):
Tilda:

 

[Bunnylady]

FurNando is probably a mix of some sort. He doesn't have the right coat for a Silver Fox (not as long as an angora, but at 1 1/2 inches long, it has a shagginess that sets it apart from other "normal" coats). He doesn't have as many white hairs as you usually see in a Champagne D'Argent, but that's a possibility.

Tilda is definitely an Otter; the question is, where did that color come from? Two commercial-type breeds, Satin and Rex, come in Otter, but she doesn't appear to have either a Rex or Satin coat. The Silver Marten is genetically only a step away from Otter; while Tilda can't be a purebred Silver Marten, a SM bred to a self-colored rabbit would produce Otters. Any of those breeds (Satin, Rex, Silver Marten) could be one of her parents. On the other hand, she could be a "Heinz 57" and any purebreds are a lot further back, too.

The Flemish loaner buck might be purebred, or might not. Flemish do come in REW, after all, and not every purebred animal will weigh 13 lbs or more. I assume you are thinking he might be part New Zealand, too? The biggest difference between the FG and the NZ is the body type; the FG's semi-arch ("mandolin") type is longer and more tapered than the deep, broad, chunky commercial type of the NZ.