Looking at cows to buy - newbies

[WildRoseBeef]

That heifer is in some SERIOUS need of some groceries, i.e., mineral like copper. We've had Angus steers like her and they were just as brown as her all because they had no copper in their diet. Putting out a mineral block fixed that.

But regardless if she's dairy, I've seen dairy heifers in better shape than her and she's in pretty rough shape, IMO.

And Red's spot on about her feet and legs. She's too pigeon-toed (toed-out) at the front and pretty cow-hocked at the back. Not good for a heifer like her. The angle of the hock has to be angled so that the lower leg (cannon bone) is straight up to her hip. Toes on all four feet should be turned in so that they're facing forward on an equal plane. Front knees should be straighter.

Also, her temperament tells me she's been spoiled rotten. She needs to be taught some manners, that's for sure!

Now, a question: are you dead set on buying a heifer as your first family milk cow? Because if I were you I'd look for an older cow, more because they're already trained to accept some hands on her udder and, when you get her bred, she'll be easier to handle and calve out.

As for udder conformation, the teats need to be small (not coke-bottle type) and evenly spaced apart. The rear quarters should not be hanging down low (which is what well-attached means) so that they're at risk of dragging on the ground. Overall, the udder should be nice and tight up to the body.

Here's a good link to read regarding conformation in cattle:

http://www.wikihow.com/Judge-Conformation-in-Cattle (comes with lots of pictures and not just words)

And some tips/sites on judging udder conformation in cattle:
http://beef.unl.edu/learning/udder_score.shtml
http://www.hereford.org/static/files/udderscoringfactsheet.pdf

Mammary anatomy:
http://classes.ansci.illinois.edu/ansc438/mamstructure/anatomy_1.html

 

[redtailgal]

I agree with Wildrose, if you can get a trained milker that would be great.


However, remember, most folks are not gonna part with a trained milker unless there is a problem. If you find one already in milk, proceed VERY cautiously. I've seen "mad" milkers (ones that are really not fun to milk) get a little sedative before being seen, or lame cattle given pain meds so they dont limp. Cows in milk sold because they routinely prolapse when bred, the list goes on and on and on. Anyone willing to sell a cow in milk immediately puts up red flags for me.

Ask a lot of questions, go over the cow thoroughly, and take an experience milker with you.

 

[mangus580]

Thanks for all the input! We really appreciate it.

We finally got a couple pictures of the one we are going to look at tomorrow...

Here is probably the best full body shot sent.

Here is what we were told about her....

Leonna Noelle (born on Christmas Day 2010) was bought by us as more of a "pet" cow when she was only 6 weeks old. We fed her by bottle and then continued on milk replacer until she was mature enough to be outside free range....feeding on the grass. We have also spoiled her a bit and given her grain each night as a treat (just 1 standard scoop).

She has been trained to walk out to our pasture by a lead (fancy dog leash of sorts) and since our pasture hasn't been fenced she is tied up to a stake which we move daily to change up her scenery.

Leonna knows she is a pet to us.... she is very tame, expects you to come visit her at night when you get home from work to give her a good petting. She is also great around our chickens and dog ( I caught her licking the puppy last evening).

I would estimate her at 700 pounds. Over time she will gain more weight, but I don't expect her to get much bigger in size.

Leaonna is a Jersey Cross (Mom 100% Jersey and Dad was a Holstein). She is of good body style, nice straight back and well proportioned.

She would make a LOVELY family cow....a great milker....or perhaps more depending on what you are looking for.

Mike (beanjeepin's other half)

 

[redtailgal]

She was born in 2010? Is this right? She looks younger than that.

That would put her over 2 years old and only 700 pounds?

 

[mangus580]

She is guessing the weight - honestly I dont think she knows how much she weighs...

She does look small - but we dont mind small, as long as its not a problem (actually prefer it)

 

[herfrds]

Need to have those stickers on her head removed.

She does look better then the first one though. Would like to see more pics of this second one.

 

[redtailgal]

Small could be a problem, actually.

You'll have to bred her periodically to freshen her, and her small size could lead to birthing problems.

Are you sure that birthday is correct? If not, it may not be a big deal. I think that its not right, I'd expect her to have larger horns than that if she were born in 2010. Could it be 2011? It would make more sense.

Her attitude sounds great, and as for conformation, she looks OK. Just OK, but good enough to be a family cow.

The muck in her hair does concern me. I cant tell from the pic if its mud or poop. If she has poop in her hair, something is wrong. If its just mud, well, she's just a slob, lol.

She is also too thin, in my opinion, and would need to get some more condition on her, and would possibly need a fecal exam and a worming, but thats not terribly expensive and really should be a standard action when bringing home any cow of any condition.

I'd go give her a look. If she was in fact born in 2010, I'd have to pass on her too, I'm afraid. I would be terribly afraid to breed her. IF she is, indeed, a 2010 calf, she is not only small, but underdeveloped, and that could lead to some problems.

If she is actually a 2011 calf, then check to make sure that it's mud on her, and not her own runny poop. Take a close look at her eyes.......bright and clear and attentive.

She should be curious about you, and should allow you to touch her udder without making you afraid (if she's never been milked, she may side step a little, thats ok, just no kicking or headbutting).

Since she is horned, pay close attention to how she uses her head. She should have been trained to keep her head still and be careful of those horns. Of course, you'll have to train YOURSELF to be careful and watchful of the horns, no matter how friendly she is. She could hurt you by swatting at a fly without realizing you are in the way.

In short, if she was born in 2010, run away and keep looking.

2011, maybe a good cow for you to have.

 

[peteyfoozer]

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[WildRoseBeef]

the very FIRST thing I would do, is joint the KeepingAFamilyCow pro boards forum and let them know what area you are in and what you are looking for. It would be SO much easier to get an experienced milked for your first cow, otherwise it might sour you on the whole deal...... I would get on those boards and find the RIGHT cow for you...

Are you saying that this forum isn't good enough for someone looking to buy a family milk cow, or practically any cow for that matter? I think you need to read the forum rules about this site before you go ahead and start advertising about another forum on here, no matter if don't think you're doing it intentionally or not.

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/misc.php?action=rules

9. Do not promote other similar websites that could be considered in competition to BackYardHerds. Sometimes it may be appropriate to link to another site that has specific information relative to a question, but moderators have to right to remove links and posts at their discretion.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Once again, I have to agree with Redtail with this girl. She does NOT look like a 2 to 3 year old cow, she's a heifer that's gotta be less than 15 months old. I'm also raising the BS flag on the statement that "Over time she will gain more weight, but I don't expect her to get much bigger in size." Because she's got Holstein in her she will get to a bigger size than she is now. I've seen Holstein-Jersey cross cows before and they're not small cows. I would think a Jersey-Holstein may reach a mature weight of 1200 lbs, and that's a fair size for a family milk cow.

The angle of the pic is off, too much that I can't see much of her conformation. Her back legs don't look that improved from the first heifer, and I think she also still looks toed-out on all four feet. IMO, no better than the first one, just her hair coat makes her look a little better, but not really good enough (again, IMO.) And once again, it may be the angle of the pic, but that's what I'm seeing.

Like Petey mentioned (aside from the unnecessary urge to go to another forum about this... ), we'd probably need a little more information to help you out here, but then again you have a much better idea of what to look for than we do, since all we can do is give you a general idea of what's best to look for. Even the folks over at the *other forum* will still give you a very general basis and outlook of what to look for.

And of course I asked before: Are you that set on buying a young heifer, or are you willing to consider getting an older, more experienced cow? What size of a cow are you looking at (i.e., what are your limitations in terms of weight or even size of frame)? Are you needing a cow that is a high producer (or a heifer that will potentially be a high producer), or a cow that is just going to give enough milk to feed your family (however many family members you have to feed)? Are you looking to raise this cow just for milk, or going to have her for raising freezer beef as well, like for the chances that she drops a bull calf if/when you get her bred to calve out?




(If I were you I would really take petey's advice about going to another forum with a grain of salt. This forum is just as good as any for good sound advice. We may not get as much traffic here as on the other one aforementioned, but there's still a number of members on here, not just me and Red, that are willing to take the time to help you out.)