Looking for Advice and Experience

[CntryBoy777]

So, another inexperienced question to ask, as another step is taken towards the fence installation....what determines whether or not an "X" is made between posts with a brace post in-between? Also, if an "X" is not required, then which side of the diagonal is up? I have no clue of these determining factors and appreciate the guidance.

 

[greybeard]

Depends on the circumstances regarding pressure on the fence wires, whether barbed wire or woven/knotted wire.
I use 2 (an x) brace wire where a gate is in the middle of a fence, putting the X only on the hinge side, especially if the gate is just latched with a chain and the end of the gate is not supported. If the following type latch mechanism is used, (or something similar) where the weight of the closed gate is supported by the latch, then the X is not required as much.
http://www.hooverfence.com/_images/heavy-duty-two-way-lockable-gate-latch-GL22P.jpg

The other place I use an X brace wire is in the middle of a fence that gets pressure from both sides of the 'H', other than just from the fence wire. Along a forest where a big limb may fall on the wire, on a fence that may see frequent pressure from feral hogs trying to run thru it and (in my case) where flood water may flow thru the fence carrying debris that builds up against the wire. In West Texas I did the X because of tumbleweeds piling up along the fences. They don't weigh much, but catch a lot of wind, and the wind was always blowing out there.

 

[Bruce]

Yep, if there is stretched fence and a gate hinged on the H brace, put in the X. The one going from the top of the gate post to the bottom of the brace post is for gate support. Visualize the gate trying to pull the top of the post away from the brace and the wire pulling it back to the base of the brace post. It is also pushing the brace itself against the upper part of the brace post. The wire going from the top of the brace post to the bottom of the gate post is for fence support. The tight fence is pulling the gate post toward the fence line and you need to counteract that by pushing the top of the gate post away from the fence line. That second wire pushes the brace against the gate post for that purpose.

Now if there is no gate, like on a strike post, you need only brace against the fence pull so you only need 1 brace wire ... or use a floating brace and save a hole and a post. As @greybeard said IF the pin of the gate in the latch he showed is putting weight on the strike post part, there is less stress on the hinge post. However, I prefer to have my gate free swinging (another reason to have bolt hooks long enough to adjust) so there isn't gate weight on the strike post.

I suppose in a perfect world you could scientifically calculate the forces such that the weight of the closed gate pulls the hinge side post with a force equal to that applied by the fence in the other direction then you wouldn't need a brace at all. Of course this would work only until you open the gate and the fence pulls back on the post while the weight of the gate pulls it sideways Maybe better to stick to the X wired H brace!

 

[AClark]

I have some cattle panels - same size as you were suggesting. My little pygmy goat can crawl through them. I had to put up the horse wire fencing to keep him in, and even that didn't work all that well.

Ideas for making it easier if you decide to put up barb wire, from someone who has done literally miles of that crap.
Get a come-along to stretch it, easier than the traditional fence stretchers and safer (you should see what happens if a fence stretcher lets go!) spool it out with a broom handle from the back of a truck. Takes 2 people, one to drive and one to hold the spool, and drive slowly (think granny gear) but it goes a lot faster. Rent a gas pounder if you can't physically pound in T posts. You can get away with only digging holes for wood posts on corners (and can rent an auger if digging isn't going to happen too) and if you bury them deep enough, as someone else said, you shouldn't need cement. Railroad ties and electrical poles are fantastic for corner posts, and cheap - they are also treated so they last quite awhile.

 

[Beekissed]

So, I think I have settled the issue in my mind, anyway. I'm thinking of putting up the more traditional fence on the boundary lines, and use cattle panels inside around the garden area. Also, to use them to section off different areas for the poultry, I can always wire some poultry wire to the bottom of the panels. It does tend to rust and collapse before too long a time and can be easily replaced with not much effort. This will give flexability within the borders and the materials will be handy if an emergency repair is needed because of a fallen tree or limb that is as large as most trees that are on the oaks around here. This will save some time and physical labor, and allow for flexability for any future plans. Any thoughts about this set-up?

You won't be keeping the chickens out of your garden with that setup, even with poultry wire at the bottom of your panels. They will hop up to the top of your panels and posts as easily as they do their own roosts and hop down on the other side.

Your best bet for keeping chickens out of the garden with that setup is to use a softer fencing(deer netting works great) extending over the top of the harder fencing and posts by at least 6-8 in., so that the chickens cannot find a landing spot there. Even on the gates.

It's easy to install deer netting to cattle panels and t posts via zip ties. To wooden fence posts via staples. To extend past these surfaces is fairly easy if you just use your noggin. For my CP gates on the garden I take out all but the edge wires of the top line of the CP and zip tie the netting to that area tautly. For my wooden posts, I just attached a slender rod of wood to each fence post and stapled the netting to those, blocking all access to the top of the posts.

I've seen chickens fly to the top of poultry wire for no longer than it takes to hop over, so I don't know if the chicken wire will offer the same "too soft landing" as the plastic mesh.

Your best bet for the garden area is 2x2 woven or welded wire fencing cut into manageable lengths for your physical abilities. You can then utilize it much like the CP but without all the worry about unwieldy rolls to stretch. Then top that fence with the suggested soft landing...this can even be accomplished with tightly stretched wire about 6-8 inches above your wire fencing.

This type of fence will keep out the chickens, rabbits, and groundhogs too if properly pinned to a garden perimeter such as landscaping timbers or something similar. If you don't have a dog on patrol around that garden at all times, you'll be needing that.

It's also cheaper than CPs and will last a good long time for you. I made gates out of CP into the garden..it makes for great gates there but one still has to provide that soft landing on the gates.

 

[greybeard]

I suppose in a perfect world you could scientifically calculate the forces such that the weight of the closed gate pulls the hinge side post with a force equal to that applied by the fence in the other direction then you wouldn't need a brace at all.

Till some yahoo decides to climb over the gate...

 

[CntryBoy777]

I do thank All for the input and suggestions. This may seem 2nd nature to most, but it has really been a tremendous Learning experience for me...in that I'm trying to not only do mostly right with this project, but also to gain understanding. I truly have learned a whole bunch.
@AClark I'm using 2"x4"x5' woven wire, I grew up disliking barbed wire and will never have big enough animals to justify using it in my mind. With the waning physical abilities, I won't get any that I can't handle any more....just admire others like yours. @Beekissed my Mom used to use string above a fence if the chickens were getting out, kinda like a clothesline, I have used the poultry wire and allow it to sag. It works okay like that, and since they have gotten older and heavier they don't get very high off the ground. The CP is 50" tall so that's 4' and the garden is inside the 2"x4"x5' woven wire. The strength of the CP is needed to keep the goats out of the garden and grapevine/blackberry area. They just love to eat them and the strawberries too.
The animals will be able to circle the garden, so any weeds, grass or old plant material can be easily tossed out for them to peck or browse on.

 

[AClark]

One thing my parents do for their horses is string 4 rows of smooth wire, and 1 top row of barbed wire so the horses respect the fence. Smooth wire is much easier to work with.
Using a truck to unroll is the way to go if you have a lot of area though. Barbed wire is a pain, as it doesn't always unroll nicely and snags. We put my parents fence back up last summer and I yanked DH out of the bed of the truck when it snagged. He tried to hold it but it pulled him right off the truck, doing about 2 MPH and I couldn't stop fast enough.

I hear you with the physical abilities. I have so much arm damage on my left arm (and unfortunately it's my dominant) and a pinched nerve where my collar bone meets the shoulder. I've had more broken bones than I can count from being bounced off of horses and fallen on by them, getting up in the morning is a challenge with the arthritis. I have to pretty much force my butt out of bed and start moving around so it will ease up and I definitely feel it for days when we do a big job like fencing. The thing is, I just refuse to let it get the best of me. I feel that at my age I should be in better shape than this and I won't let it stop me from doing what I want to do. Mind over matter, and painkillers!

Speaking of chicken fencing, I was looking into that plastic electric net stuff for mine. Seems like it would work and the fencing is a decent price (the charger for the fence isn't really though) anyone used that or is it a waste of time and money?

 

[babsbag]

I use the electric net as a temporary pen and it seems to work fine.

 

[CntryBoy777]

I've never used it, but have read others claiming it worked for them....to be honest I've never seen it even. I certainly understand the painkillers too...and that reminds me that I'm due another Rx in about a wk or so...
Tho, I can't make it without the muscle relaxers, my foot, back, shoulder, and neck gets spasms that are unbearable and it is the only thing that will ease it some. I have pinched nerves in my right elbow, shoulder, and neck.