Some of you my remember the thread I posted earlier last week about the scouring wether.. It was a pretty loose scour and he was a little bit droopy, so we treated him.. One dose of di-methox, a shot of banamine, and some pepto and he turned right around and was making pellets by Thursday.. I was never even truly convinced that he had anything bacterial, because I didn't see that much in the way of water or mucous...just looked like maybe an extra-loose greenish-brown scour to me, which could be anything.
Well, my wife called late Thursday afternoon and said one of our does had the runs.. We figured it was probably the same thing the wether had -- if he had anything at all! -- so we treated with di-methox and a shot of banamine when I got home, followed by pepto later.
Just after treating her, we noticed that the wether seemed a little droopy again. My wife was petting him and I swear you guys...he went from pellets to clumpy-pellets to a log to a 'tube' to a really liquid scour from one BM to the next -- in no more than **3 minutes** tops. It was truly shocking..
Given the way he and the doe were scouring and acting exactly the same, I felt confident at that point that it was bacterial and due to some kind of environmental contaminant that they'd both gotten into.. I actually figured the wether's case was probably a relapse as I didn't follow up with the di-methox -- again, I hadn't been entirely convinced on Tuesday that it was bacterial, and I didn't want to upset his GI any more than it already had been.
After seeing his rapid downhill slide, though, we hit him with di-methox again, too.. It's about 7pm at this point. Both goats are anorexic...they'll go stand with their heads in the hay bunk and almost "pretend" to eat, but they won't eat.. It was so strange to see. Both are acting exactly the same way..
After treatment, we waited nervously.. I called the vet for any extra advice at about 10pm just because whatever this was seemed so fast and so powerful...they advised hitting them both with oxytetracycline and to worm them just in case, so I did that (wormed with fenbendazole...figured it wsa less icky for goats that are already feeling horrible, and I *knew* this wasn't worms).. Otherwise, I was told I had "a pretty good start on it so far" with what I was already doing...di-methox, banamine, electrolytes, pepto, blankets, b-complex, etc..
Both goats continued more or less the same until the wether brightened up tremendously and suddenly at about 2am or thereabout...ate, drank, tried to eat my hat, etc. Like his old self, almost. The doe hadn't perked up at that point, but we figured it was just taking her longer...
At about 5am, we hit her with di-methox again because she just wasn't getting any better. Though I regret it so much now, I truly didn't feel it was a good idea to switch anti-bacterials at the time because di-methox had seemed to work for the wether... Whatever this was, in my mind, it was susceptible to di-methox.
She faked me out at about 7:15am...she seemed to have perked up a bit, so I took off toward the vet's office with two fecals just to see if there was anything they could tell.. I felt pretty OK, though, like we'd turned the corner with both of them.. The vet got me a few syringes of Naxcel, and I thought for sure we'd get it whooped.. Called in to work.
By the time I got home maybe 2.5hrs later, she was much, much worse.. We brought her in the house to keep her warm, continued giving her as much electrolyte as she'd take, and we waited for her to turn around.. She never did.. Just as we were hitting desperation mode and were looking to try other meds, she'd lost the ability to swallow...
We put her on warm lactated ringers SQ and got half a bag in her.. We put a heating pad under the blankets... Ugh.. Suffice it to say that her story only gets worse from there, and she passed that night with her head in my wife's lap as she begged her not to go..
The only way I can describe the whole situation is absolute shock and devastation..
We did the math and she passed maybe 30 hours after symptoms were noted, and she was absolutely perfect a mere 48 hours before the time of her death.
I had the vet send the samples off to be cultured, as I still have no idea what we were dealing with. I'm not sure I trust the diagnostic lab to be of much help, but we'll see.
Something that really sucks is that at about 4pm or so Friday -- just a few hours before the doe died -- the wether started to go droopy again.. He's mope around with his head to the grass but wasn't eating. I went out to check on him and he ground his teeth as I approached. I hadn't given him a shot of banamine since Tuesday, and this was Friday, so he got another shot and another dose of di-methox.. He perked up and ate that night, but I was really worried that he was going to turn again..
At that point, I came to believe that he was only doing as well as he was because he's a big, strong, fleshy wether -- and a hybrid at that -- and that he simply had the reserves to power through the illness with a bit of help from the di-methox.....whereas, the doe didn't...but that the di-methox wasn't really working afterall. Helping him -- yes; effective against this bug -- not really.
Basically, I said "Screw this!" and hit him with about 3.5cc of borrowed spectam scour-halt...just to try something different. He was still scouring 12hrs later, so I hit him with it again.. He started to firm up just the tiniest bit, so we laid off the scour-halt (didn't want to shut him down) and probiosed him.. He was still getting Naxcel and b-shots, too.. He picked around at hay and forage all day Saturday, but he wasn't chowing down like normal.. We probiosed him, continued b-complex, electrolytes in his water, etc....
Yesterday morning, he was like a brand-new goat -- pellets and all. I almost couldn't believe it. Ate like a HORSE all day long. I was so happy, yet so truly pissed off at myself for not doing the same for the doe..
I've replayed the entire thing a million times in my mind, and I sooooo wish I'd just hit the both of them with scour-halt from the get go.. I even went so far as to kinda chide myself into saying screw the wisdom about not running for the antibiotics and antibacterials at the first sign of a scour -- I'm scour-halting from now on, regardless!
But....no. I won't.. Indeed, we were tested immediately, as one of our other does loosened up yesterday. She kept her appetite and seemed perfectly fine otherwise, and it was just like dog-turdish pseudo-scour with no significant fluid loss. I had to resist an almost-overwhelming urge to dose her with scour-halt, but we just probiosed her and waited.. As of this morning, she's no looser than she was and she was standing with a cud when I went to visit..
I'm even pretty doggone sure I know why the latest doe loosened up, too...we opened up more pasture to the goats just to sorta dilute the area that the two sick goats had been roaming and possibly contaminating. We had even already pretty much predicted that someone would loosen up because of it and confuse the entire situation, but we still felt it was prudent to open more clean forage..
Ugh.. I'm really sorry this post was so long, but I just feel like a total FAILURE right now and needed to get it all out.. I'm not sure what they had, but hindsight's just giving me a royal beatdown right now.. My practical side says...duh...if we always knew ahead of time what we were dealing with, everything could be saved.
Still...I just hate it so much.. I had to rescue this doe out of a near coma and bottle raise her on account of a neglectful FF mother.. Also had to tape her feet up because she developed contracted tendons a day after birth. Of all the goats, I personally felt the strongest connection to the one we lost. And she was soooo beautiful...long bodied, graceful, not too much slope past the hip bones, good udder attachment, sweet but playful disposition.. She was just a real beauty and would certainly have been bred in the coming weeks.. We were looking forward to her kids more than anyone else's..
I mean...I just feel AWFUL...she wasn't even 2 years old, you guys..
Well, my wife called late Thursday afternoon and said one of our does had the runs.. We figured it was probably the same thing the wether had -- if he had anything at all! -- so we treated with di-methox and a shot of banamine when I got home, followed by pepto later.
Just after treating her, we noticed that the wether seemed a little droopy again. My wife was petting him and I swear you guys...he went from pellets to clumpy-pellets to a log to a 'tube' to a really liquid scour from one BM to the next -- in no more than **3 minutes** tops. It was truly shocking..
Given the way he and the doe were scouring and acting exactly the same, I felt confident at that point that it was bacterial and due to some kind of environmental contaminant that they'd both gotten into.. I actually figured the wether's case was probably a relapse as I didn't follow up with the di-methox -- again, I hadn't been entirely convinced on Tuesday that it was bacterial, and I didn't want to upset his GI any more than it already had been.
After seeing his rapid downhill slide, though, we hit him with di-methox again, too.. It's about 7pm at this point. Both goats are anorexic...they'll go stand with their heads in the hay bunk and almost "pretend" to eat, but they won't eat.. It was so strange to see. Both are acting exactly the same way..
After treatment, we waited nervously.. I called the vet for any extra advice at about 10pm just because whatever this was seemed so fast and so powerful...they advised hitting them both with oxytetracycline and to worm them just in case, so I did that (wormed with fenbendazole...figured it wsa less icky for goats that are already feeling horrible, and I *knew* this wasn't worms).. Otherwise, I was told I had "a pretty good start on it so far" with what I was already doing...di-methox, banamine, electrolytes, pepto, blankets, b-complex, etc..
Both goats continued more or less the same until the wether brightened up tremendously and suddenly at about 2am or thereabout...ate, drank, tried to eat my hat, etc. Like his old self, almost. The doe hadn't perked up at that point, but we figured it was just taking her longer...
At about 5am, we hit her with di-methox again because she just wasn't getting any better. Though I regret it so much now, I truly didn't feel it was a good idea to switch anti-bacterials at the time because di-methox had seemed to work for the wether... Whatever this was, in my mind, it was susceptible to di-methox.
She faked me out at about 7:15am...she seemed to have perked up a bit, so I took off toward the vet's office with two fecals just to see if there was anything they could tell.. I felt pretty OK, though, like we'd turned the corner with both of them.. The vet got me a few syringes of Naxcel, and I thought for sure we'd get it whooped.. Called in to work.
By the time I got home maybe 2.5hrs later, she was much, much worse.. We brought her in the house to keep her warm, continued giving her as much electrolyte as she'd take, and we waited for her to turn around.. She never did.. Just as we were hitting desperation mode and were looking to try other meds, she'd lost the ability to swallow...
We put her on warm lactated ringers SQ and got half a bag in her.. We put a heating pad under the blankets... Ugh.. Suffice it to say that her story only gets worse from there, and she passed that night with her head in my wife's lap as she begged her not to go..
The only way I can describe the whole situation is absolute shock and devastation..
We did the math and she passed maybe 30 hours after symptoms were noted, and she was absolutely perfect a mere 48 hours before the time of her death.
I had the vet send the samples off to be cultured, as I still have no idea what we were dealing with. I'm not sure I trust the diagnostic lab to be of much help, but we'll see.
Something that really sucks is that at about 4pm or so Friday -- just a few hours before the doe died -- the wether started to go droopy again.. He's mope around with his head to the grass but wasn't eating. I went out to check on him and he ground his teeth as I approached. I hadn't given him a shot of banamine since Tuesday, and this was Friday, so he got another shot and another dose of di-methox.. He perked up and ate that night, but I was really worried that he was going to turn again..
At that point, I came to believe that he was only doing as well as he was because he's a big, strong, fleshy wether -- and a hybrid at that -- and that he simply had the reserves to power through the illness with a bit of help from the di-methox.....whereas, the doe didn't...but that the di-methox wasn't really working afterall. Helping him -- yes; effective against this bug -- not really.
Basically, I said "Screw this!" and hit him with about 3.5cc of borrowed spectam scour-halt...just to try something different. He was still scouring 12hrs later, so I hit him with it again.. He started to firm up just the tiniest bit, so we laid off the scour-halt (didn't want to shut him down) and probiosed him.. He was still getting Naxcel and b-shots, too.. He picked around at hay and forage all day Saturday, but he wasn't chowing down like normal.. We probiosed him, continued b-complex, electrolytes in his water, etc....
Yesterday morning, he was like a brand-new goat -- pellets and all. I almost couldn't believe it. Ate like a HORSE all day long. I was so happy, yet so truly pissed off at myself for not doing the same for the doe..
I've replayed the entire thing a million times in my mind, and I sooooo wish I'd just hit the both of them with scour-halt from the get go.. I even went so far as to kinda chide myself into saying screw the wisdom about not running for the antibiotics and antibacterials at the first sign of a scour -- I'm scour-halting from now on, regardless!
But....no. I won't.. Indeed, we were tested immediately, as one of our other does loosened up yesterday. She kept her appetite and seemed perfectly fine otherwise, and it was just like dog-turdish pseudo-scour with no significant fluid loss. I had to resist an almost-overwhelming urge to dose her with scour-halt, but we just probiosed her and waited.. As of this morning, she's no looser than she was and she was standing with a cud when I went to visit..
I'm even pretty doggone sure I know why the latest doe loosened up, too...we opened up more pasture to the goats just to sorta dilute the area that the two sick goats had been roaming and possibly contaminating. We had even already pretty much predicted that someone would loosen up because of it and confuse the entire situation, but we still felt it was prudent to open more clean forage..
Ugh.. I'm really sorry this post was so long, but I just feel like a total FAILURE right now and needed to get it all out.. I'm not sure what they had, but hindsight's just giving me a royal beatdown right now.. My practical side says...duh...if we always knew ahead of time what we were dealing with, everything could be saved.
Still...I just hate it so much.. I had to rescue this doe out of a near coma and bottle raise her on account of a neglectful FF mother.. Also had to tape her feet up because she developed contracted tendons a day after birth. Of all the goats, I personally felt the strongest connection to the one we lost. And she was soooo beautiful...long bodied, graceful, not too much slope past the hip bones, good udder attachment, sweet but playful disposition.. She was just a real beauty and would certainly have been bred in the coming weeks.. We were looking forward to her kids more than anyone else's..
I mean...I just feel AWFUL...she wasn't even 2 years old, you guys..
