Making A Pasture

[Beekissed]

Hmmm, guess I'll have to improve my knowledge of pine trees and their effect on grass. My in-laws had a couple of big pines next to their house on one side and only moss grew there. I guess it was due to the lack of sun, not the needles or soil. They had decent grass everywhere else.

Nah, Bruce....I'm with you. The pines here have created soils that are way too acidic and nothing but moss grows where the pines are located....or nothing. Moss or nothing, no matter how much light is let in. This used to be a pine grove and even after several decades of pines not growing in some areas, the soil is STILL acid. I've used lime out the whazooty but still acid.

They say that's all a myth, but it's not a myth here....moss and nothing much else where the pines are, even with good spacing between them, and grass where they aren't or never have been. Moss even where they USED to be. So, either pines grow naturally in highly acidic soils and that's why they occur there and it's all a coincidence of their love of acidic soils, or they actually create more acid levels by their being there.

 

[thistlebloom]

Nah, Bruce....I'm with you. The pines here have created soils that are way too acidic and nothing but moss grows where the pines are located....or nothing. Moss or nothing, no matter how much light is let in. This used to be a pine grove and even after several decades of pines not growing in some areas, the soil is STILL acid. I've used lime out the whazooty but still acid.

They say that's all a myth, but it's not a myth here....moss and nothing much else where the pines are, even with good spacing between them, and grass where they aren't or never have been. Moss even where they USED to be. So, either pines grow naturally in highly acidic soils and that's why they occur there and it's all a coincidence of their love of acidic soils, or they actually create more acid levels by their being there.

I'm sorry to have to disagree with your position.
The actual cause of a regions soil pH is the parent material that forms the soil, not the plants growing on it. Like many long standing myths, that have been perpetuated by well meaning people, the idea that pines acidify soil is erroneous.
Eastern states have acidic soils because of the bedrock that makes those soils. Western states on the other hand are largely alkaline.
I live in a pine forest, my soil is not acidic. Pines do not "love" acidic soil, they just grow where they grow.
Acid loving plants perform best where the soil is acidic and gardeners who want to grow them must acidify the soil frequently because you cannot change the bedrock composition that determines your soil makeup.

A quick google will give you this:

How parent material influences soil pH

Although the pH scale ranges from 0 to 14, most soils have pH values between 4 and 9. Many soils of the world are acidic for a variety of r...

soilscience240.blogspot.com

Garden Myth: Pine Needles Acidify the Soil

There is a very common and persistent garden myth that pine needles (and other conifer needles) acidify the soil andContinue Reading

laidbackgardener.blog

Do pine trees and pine needles make soil more acidic?

A Question of the Week

extension.unh.edu

Do Pine Needles Acidify Soil - Garden Myths

Do Pine Needles Acidify Soil? Are pine needles acidic? Are green or dry pine needles better for acidifying soil? Find out more about this garden myth.

www.gardenmyths.com

Increase the humus content and the fertility and you can grow stuff. As you have found in your garden Bee, compost (which is a neutral pH when broken down) increases the tilth, attracts beneficial microbes and boosts fertility.

 

[Beekissed]

I'm sorry to have to disagree with your position.
The actual cause of a regions soil pH is the parent material that forms the soil, not the plants growing on it. Like many long standing myths, that have been perpetuated by well meaning people, the idea that pines acidify soil is erroneous.
Eastern states have acidic soils because of the bedrock that makes those soils. Western states on the other hand are largely alkaline.
I live in a pine forest, my soil is not acidic. Pines do not "love" acidic soil, they just grow where they grow.
Acid loving plants perform best where the soil is acidic and gardeners who want to grow them must acidify the soil frequently because you cannot change the bedrock composition that determines your soil makeup.

A quick google will give you this:

How parent material influences soil pH

Although the pH scale ranges from 0 to 14, most soils have pH values between 4 and 9. Many soils of the world are acidic for a variety of r...

soilscience240.blogspot.com

Garden Myth: Pine Needles Acidify the Soil

There is a very common and persistent garden myth that pine needles (and other conifer needles) acidify the soil andContinue Reading

laidbackgardener.blog

Do pine trees and pine needles make soil more acidic?

A Question of the Week

extension.unh.edu

Do Pine Needles Acidify Soil - Garden Myths

Do Pine Needles Acidify Soil? Are pine needles acidic? Are green or dry pine needles better for acidifying soil? Find out more about this garden myth.

www.gardenmyths.com

Yeah, I read all of that. Do I believe it? Not so much. I'm more of a "show me" kind of person, here in my own place, in my own back yard, before I believe what scientists yak on about.

Time will tell, though....getting all the pines removed here to make some pasture, so will see how much influence the pines had over how well we can get grass to grow in those areas~without liming it to death. So far I've yet to see pines growing with a verdant covering of grass around the base of the tree....or anywhere within the drip line.

 

[thistlebloom]

Yeah, I read all of that. Do I believe it? Not so much. I'm more of a "show me" kind of person, here in my own place, in my own back yard, before I believe what scientists yak on about.

Time will tell, though....getting all the pines removed here to make some pasture, so will see how much influence the pines had over how well we can get grass to grow in those areas~without liming it to death. So far I've yet to see pines growing with a verdant covering of grass around the base of the tree....or anywhere within the drip line.

What then would be your explanation of my soils pH given the abundance of pine trees I garden under?

 

[Beekissed]

What then would be your explanation of my soils pH given the abundance of pine trees I garden under?

Don't know....that's in YOUR yard. Maybe a different type of pine? Maybe all the mulch you've used to create a different topsoil? Not sure, but here is where I live and learn, so I can only go on what is happening here. What other folks say doesn't necessarily apply here.

 

[thistlebloom]

So far I've yet to see pines growing with a verdant covering of grass around the base of the tree....or anywhere within the drip line.

Shade, surface roots, low fertility.

 

[Bruce]

Eastern states have acidic soils because of the bedrock that makes those soils.

That and all the acid rain we got from the midwest. Yay for the Clean Air Act! Booo for the coal burning plants in the midwest that violated the CAA.

 

[thistlebloom]

It's all the parent material of your soil, the bedrock that makes that soil.
Believe what you like, it doesn't change facts.
Some people can be as hard headed and stubborn as the rock that makes their soil composition.
I love you Bee!

 

[frustratedearthmother]

So far I've yet to see pines growing with a verdant covering of grass around the base of the tree....or anywhere within the drip line.

We've got pine trees around us - grass grows right up to the base of the trees.

 

[Beekissed]

It's all the parent material of your soil, the bedrock that makes that soil.
Believe what you like, it doesn't change facts.
Some people can be as hard headed and stubborn as the rock that makes their soil composition.
I love you Bee!

I love you too! Being hard headed and stubborn is how I've had to survived in this life, so a person goes with what works. I've never been one to believe the accepted wisdom, especially if it's from scientists....turns out, they don't know everything.