MANAGING WORMS. Can you improve the overall health of the flock?

[mikiz]

Lovely dogs TOR! I'd love to hear more about your management system, I've been trying to do some research on natural grazing and rotations, even if it is just on a small scale.

 

[mysunwolf]

What is the rotation time between pastures? Or maybe I should ask how long can sheep be on a pasture before reinfecting themselves?

Did this question ever get answered? Can't find the answer anywhere and I was curious too. I have heard that, regardless of the stocking density, if you're going to eliminate parasites and destroy the cycle you have to rotate every 1-2 days and let the land rest for 30-90 days (depending on weather and forage conditions).

T.O.R., are your sheep almost constantly moved by the dogs? And not returned to pastures for quite some time? So you think your dry climate contributes to your ability to manage parasites?

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day,On the question of "How long in one paddock"?Generally speaking it takes about 18 days from egg to being able to be ingested by the sheep.Depending on the available feed and quality of same I will leave them for 15 days.The more paddocks you have the easier it is to manage(as long as you keep accurate records).On our sheep block of 300 acs we have 14 paddocks,but I would like to have the three more paddocks I had planned for,this may sound a lot but at times we are running 3 mobs.In the drier Western Division parasite control would be "much easier" IMO.

Our farm is rolling countryside and so we have paddocks that provide shelter/warmth for the two extremes of our weather,also we are on the temperate East Coast of Aust,but at 750 mts we have 4 distinct seasons.Barbers Pole is our most dangerous worm and its worst in Spring and Fall ,or after a rain event in summer with high humidity.We do use an array of drenches strategically to reduce the threat,but do not use them routinely as this brings on resistance.The way you manage you pasture can have an impact on the threat they pose.(a subject we can explore later if the group wishes?)

On the dog question,over the years I have developed a system of alerting both the sheep and the dogs as to when a move is about to take place.In a normal day myself and the dogs walk around the sheep ,just for a look ,but when a move is on I use a series of whistles and this causes the sheep to "mob up" and "turn away"(my preference is to drive the sheep before me and the dogs look after the "wings".(I have a series of photos which illustrate this and will put up if you wish)....T.O.R.

 

[Baymule]

Thanks for the answer. We only have 8 acres, one acre for house and garden. Have about 2 acres fenced with my horses in it--holes in my pocket I dump money in. Shrug.....two are old and will die with me....

Almost finished fencing in a quarter acre, then will fence in another quarter. Have another planned between garden and road. Then will get the other side fenced, which will be a pie shape triangle 1186 feet down the outside line and close to 200 feet across the back. Mostly wooded, LOTS of briars and brush. Looking forward to getting it cleaned up.

Having a small place, I know I can't run 100 ewes, LOL. My thinking is that with small pastures and moving them, I can cut down on parasites and treat available grass and browse better.

Another question, if I move them in 15 days to another pasture, how long will the worm larvae stay viable to reinfect? How long to keep them off the pasture they just vacated?

I know I can't have a lot of sheep, but I want some for my own eating and select customers.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day, this is such a hard question ,"How many paddocks"?Using the concept of 15 days,if you have 6 paddocks you go through a "season"(hopefully without returning) depending on stock pressure of course.To my mind the key is to drench at the start of the danger period with a long acting drench for your particular problem.As Barbers Pole is the worst,I tend to focus on it.Over the last few years I have used Cydectin plus Tape as the first drench at about 14/16 weeks for the lambs, depending on the perceived threat.Down here Tape is not considered a "threat",but they get the eggs in the ewes milk,a Tape worm takes up space and consumes nutrition and I would think it compromises growth?Treat the ewes at the end of spring to limit eggs in the pasture as if you have summer rainfall you will have a problem.The next one is at the fall break and it s a Narrow spectrum for BP and Fluke.How many horses?Will you be rotating them after the sheep have finished?Viability is a matter of temperature,down here we get 40 c summers and in most cases "fry" the larvae.Fall "triggers" egg laying by the worms so that drench limits the next generation .Eggs can survive the frost and snow(we get -8 c and some snow in winter)Spring usually brings the other worms to life,so a different chemical is recommended.BTW our first farm was only 5 acs and over the years we have purchased larger and larger acs to where we are now and the reality is I'm too "old" to make the most of it.

I hope the above is of some 'value" to the group.....T.O.R..

 

[Southern by choice]

(I have a series of photos which illustrate this and will put up if you wish)

you have to ask?

 

[Baymule]

Thanks T. O. R. for the info. Looks like I'll have 4 pastures. I have 3 horses and 1 mule. Won't be able to graze them with the sheep as the mule wants to stomp everything that is not a horse. I'll follow the sheep with the horses.

Summers here are scorchers, get to high 90'sF and 100 F. By August, the garden is burnt to a crisp and grasses just survive. Bermuda grass is a gift to our climate, I have planted 3 different pasture varieties on my available clearings. In the fall I'll plant Dutch white clover, red clover, rye grass and winter wheat.

 

[Bossroo]

Thanks T. O. R. for the info. Looks like I'll have 4 pastures. I have 3 horses and 1 mule. Won't be able to graze them with the sheep as the mule wants to stomp everything that is not a horse. I'll follow the sheep with the horses.

Summers here are scorchers, get to high 90'sF and 100 F. By August, the garden is burnt to a crisp and grasses just survive. Bermuda grass is a gift to our climate, I have planted 3 different pasture varieties on my available clearings. In the fall I'll plant Dutch white clover, red clover, rye grass and winter wheat.

Our temperatures at our ranch in Cal. are very simialar to yours, but have little spring rainfall so the pastures are a golden brown by mid May. our clay soil types , hardpans, etc. are different. I had very good success in planting endophite free fescue, oats, and barley over native grasses and burr clover as winter pasture then fed high quality alfalfa hay + grain. The animals would still be out in the pastures to eat whatever dormant pasture feed that they wanted . Be carefull whith wheat as the maturing grain balls up in the intestines of horses and may cause colic. Drenching as TOR recomends is good.

 

[Baymule]

Thanks bossroo, I would use the wheat for winter graze, then mow it before heading up. I appreciate the advice and help.

 

[greybeard]

So what has changed with domestication? Modern agriculture since the 50/60s has determined that stock can “survive” on a mono/duo culture along with chemicals and pharmersuiticals to assist with stock health, but does this type of production actually contribute to the strength of the species? If you accept that not every baby born is destined to contribute to the strength of the species and the farmer interferes with the natural process does he/she not contribute to reduction in the strength of the species overall? One needs to ask the question “just because I can interfere, should I”?Before we head down the path of reliance on chemical drenches which is like entering a tunnel which has no end and the end result will be worm resistance to every drench available. The newest chemical class was showing worm resistance within 12 months in some districts due to overuse/misuse by producers. There are a range of strategy’s the farmer can adopt to overcome this challenge and they can not only “reduce costs” but increase the overall health of the flock. Rotational grazing to reduce re-infection, pasture diversity increases self –medication and careful selection of replacements to boost natural immunity in the next generation.

From reading just this introductory post, one might infer that you don't interfere at all or minimally at most. Glad to see you clarified this in subsequent posts:

We do not take the SOTF to extremes,we worm our flock but its done strategically to assist in times of most threat.............To my mind the key is to drench at the start of the danger period with a long acting drench for your particular problem.As Barbers Pole is the worst,I tend to focus on it.Over the last few years I have used Cydectin plus Tape as the first drench at about 14/16 weeks for the lambs, depending on the perceived threat.Down here Tape is not considered a "threat",but they get the eggs in the ewes milk,a Tape worm takes up space and consumes nutrition and I would think it compromises growth?Treat the ewes at the end of spring to limit eggs in the pasture as if you have summer rainfall you will have a problem.The next one is at the fall break and it s a Narrow spectrum for BP and Fluke.

As producers (cattle in my case) we have 2 responsibilities--( 3 if you count the financial/profit aspects) Other 2 are to care for our livestock and be good stewards of the land itself. Parasite problems are best controlled by a multipronged plan, not a 'One size fits all' plan and pasture rotation is only a small part of it.

The truth is, every single thing we do is "interfering". Every fence we build, every rotation, culling, outside genetics brought in, all of it, but the days of just letting a herd or flock run loose on a large ranch (station) with no crossfencing, no antibiotics, no parasite control practices are long gone. It doesn't mean we have to rely 100% on chemicals and pharma, but they are neccessary tools that cannot and must not be thrown out with the bath water.