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- #751
Margali's Griffin Wood Ranch
- Thread starter Margali
- Start date
Ridgetop
Herd Master
Since predators can take them all out - how much did you pay, and how much to replace them? What are they worth in $$$. Love and anguish at seeing the bloody carcasses don't count in $$$ - except in counseling for the kids. We have had LGDs for years, and they have kept us safe and sleeping sound. Then we decided to do withut LGDs for awhile and here is what happened.
Our old Pyr died of cancer leaving us without an LGD. We decided that if we locked the sheep up before the sun went down and only let them out during the day we would be fine. We had a ram and 3 ewes. For 2 years no problem. The third year we lost a ewe that was due to lamb. One ewe and 2 lambs down = $650.00 (unregistered Dorset ewes and her twins) Several months later another ewe at term went down. These were daylight coyote kills. The total loss was now up to $1300. With only one ewe and ram left we replaced the ewes with 3 ewe lambs. This meant a year until we had lambs again, so a year of income (or meat) was lost. The coyotes came back and took 2 more ewes, one almost term and one yearling. Daylight kills again. The losses were mounting higher - another $900 brought the total to $2400. Replacement costs of ewe lambs had been going up. Now that the coyotes (and loose dogs) knew that we had fuzzy meals they grew bolder.
By the time we got Rika we had lost 8 ewes, over half with unborn lambs, and several years of production time. This totaled about $8,000 in lost sheep, unborn lamb revenue, and original purchase price of dead animals. We do dry lot raising so we were also out the price of all the hay we had been feeding over those years. But the lost production time when we had to wait for the replacement ewe lambs to grow old enough to breed and lamb was really costly. At the time I had private buyers for every ram lamb I weaned. When you consider that we also had to pay someone to come in and clear the required 200 feet of fire clearance around the buildings and fence lines, that figure increased another couple thousand.
Faced with continued depredation, we kept our surviving sheep locked in the barn where we had to up our cleaning schedules and they could not do fire clearance. We needed to replace our LGDs. I also decided to switch from Pyrs, who were terrible wanderers to Anatolians.
I called over a dozen Anatolian breeders online. I only buy LGD puppies from litters that have OFA parents, and I needed a dog raised with actual livestock, not just horses and chickens. My LGDs have to work. No one had puppies available in less than 3 months, and they all had waiting lists for those pups and future litters. Anyway, I really needed an older, trained dog. All the breeders suggested I call Erick Conard who they all said was the most knowledgeable Anatolian breeder around. I called Erick Conard and talked with him for a month every couple days about my worries - would I be able to raise ad train an Anatolian - since they have a reputation of being "SHARP".
FYI in the dog world 'sharp' is a euphemism that can mean anything from terrier boldness to downright viciousness.
Impressed (he said) by my desire for knowledge, (or possibly my constant calling) Erick said he might let us have an 18 month old, trained Anatolian bitch (at that time he was still breeding twice a year and had about 30 dogs). He had 2 litter sisters and was considering selling one. We had to drive to southeast Texas to pick her up. He refused to ship. If we did not pass his approval he would have backed out of the sale. Luckily, the sight of DH sitting on a hay bale surrounded by happy Anatolians reassured him. Not all of them were friendly dogs so . . . . Harika was expensive at the time - 8 years ago - $1500). Compared to what we lost in the couple years without an LGD she was priceless and neither DH nor I even blinked. The thought of a complete night's sleep again had him hauling out his checkbook.
Erick is the type of breeder who welcomes you calling with any questions about behavior, interesting observations about LGD behavior, etc. He has become a close friend and we often just call each other to chat. I would only buy LGDs from Erick or his bloodlines, because they are not only great guardians but the back up in training, and help he gives is invaluable. We are picking up our 4th Lucky Hit dog the first of March in Texas. Our LGDs have saved us many more thousand $$s over their combined prices.
By the way, in spite of our LGDs we have found several dead coyotes inside our fences over the past couple years. They are a great deterrent, if the coyotes or stay dogs don't listen, they are terminated with great prejudice.
Our old Pyr died of cancer leaving us without an LGD. We decided that if we locked the sheep up before the sun went down and only let them out during the day we would be fine. We had a ram and 3 ewes. For 2 years no problem. The third year we lost a ewe that was due to lamb. One ewe and 2 lambs down = $650.00 (unregistered Dorset ewes and her twins) Several months later another ewe at term went down. These were daylight coyote kills. The total loss was now up to $1300. With only one ewe and ram left we replaced the ewes with 3 ewe lambs. This meant a year until we had lambs again, so a year of income (or meat) was lost. The coyotes came back and took 2 more ewes, one almost term and one yearling. Daylight kills again. The losses were mounting higher - another $900 brought the total to $2400. Replacement costs of ewe lambs had been going up. Now that the coyotes (and loose dogs) knew that we had fuzzy meals they grew bolder.
By the time we got Rika we had lost 8 ewes, over half with unborn lambs, and several years of production time. This totaled about $8,000 in lost sheep, unborn lamb revenue, and original purchase price of dead animals. We do dry lot raising so we were also out the price of all the hay we had been feeding over those years. But the lost production time when we had to wait for the replacement ewe lambs to grow old enough to breed and lamb was really costly. At the time I had private buyers for every ram lamb I weaned. When you consider that we also had to pay someone to come in and clear the required 200 feet of fire clearance around the buildings and fence lines, that figure increased another couple thousand.
Faced with continued depredation, we kept our surviving sheep locked in the barn where we had to up our cleaning schedules and they could not do fire clearance. We needed to replace our LGDs. I also decided to switch from Pyrs, who were terrible wanderers to Anatolians.I called over a dozen Anatolian breeders online. I only buy LGD puppies from litters that have OFA parents, and I needed a dog raised with actual livestock, not just horses and chickens. My LGDs have to work. No one had puppies available in less than 3 months, and they all had waiting lists for those pups and future litters. Anyway, I really needed an older, trained dog. All the breeders suggested I call Erick Conard who they all said was the most knowledgeable Anatolian breeder around. I called Erick Conard and talked with him for a month every couple days about my worries - would I be able to raise ad train an Anatolian - since they have a reputation of being "SHARP".
FYI in the dog world 'sharp' is a euphemism that can mean anything from terrier boldness to downright viciousness.
Impressed (he said) by my desire for knowledge, (or possibly my constant calling) Erick said he might let us have an 18 month old, trained Anatolian bitch (at that time he was still breeding twice a year and had about 30 dogs). He had 2 litter sisters and was considering selling one. We had to drive to southeast Texas to pick her up. He refused to ship. If we did not pass his approval he would have backed out of the sale. Luckily, the sight of DH sitting on a hay bale surrounded by happy Anatolians reassured him. Not all of them were friendly dogs so . . . . Harika was expensive at the time - 8 years ago - $1500). Compared to what we lost in the couple years without an LGD she was priceless and neither DH nor I even blinked. The thought of a complete night's sleep again had him hauling out his checkbook.
Erick is the type of breeder who welcomes you calling with any questions about behavior, interesting observations about LGD behavior, etc. He has become a close friend and we often just call each other to chat. I would only buy LGDs from Erick or his bloodlines, because they are not only great guardians but the back up in training, and help he gives is invaluable. We are picking up our 4th Lucky Hit dog the first of March in Texas. Our LGDs have saved us many more thousand $$s over their combined prices.
By the way, in spite of our LGDs we have found several dead coyotes inside our fences over the past couple years. They are a great deterrent, if the coyotes or stay dogs don't listen, they are terminated with great prejudice.
SageHill
Herd Master
what @Ridgetop said. I was going to post the how many are you willing to lose before you say you need one. While I don't have one (yet) I'm sure (though hope not) the time will come. Where I had sheep before here - at a friend's where we bought sheep together - we were fine for years. Big arena to let them graze and a night pen. Once the coyotes find they have an easy source for breakfast/lunch/dinner they will return often. Years before that I had chickens at my house - strictly free range with a night coop. Years went by -- it was great -- then one day the coyotes found us. Daylight eating for them - my neighbor would call and say the coyotes are grabbing your chickens. From then on the chickens lived in the Fort Knox of chickendom.
It's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN.
I'm walking the line now with my sheep - barn at night, predator eyes all around (AMAZON), and a keen awareness of what the local pack is doing. If I hear them I put sheep away, when I'm out grazing and I see one I shoot.
- Thread starter
- #754
Margali
Herd Master
For now, the sheep are staying in the expanded night pen with a bale of hay. That keeps them safe cheaply while I secure the home acre so my children are safe.
I'm getting the home acre fenced with my minimal cash and going to run hot wire with 4 Joules charger around the bottom. Once that is done, the sheep can graze the acre safely as long as Bruno is on ranch side.
Sigh... I was making progress on debt elimination.
I'm getting the home acre fenced with my minimal cash and going to run hot wire with 4 Joules charger around the bottom. Once that is done, the sheep can graze the acre safely as long as Bruno is on ranch side.
Sigh... I was making progress on debt elimination.
Baymule
Herd Master
Fencing ain’t cheap!
Bruce
Herd Master
Nor easy!
- Thread starter
- #757
Margali
Herd Master
The service at this restaurant is TERRIBLE! We've been waiting for HOURS!
Finally the server came back.
Food at last!
Mini Horses
Herd Master
No tip for that service! 
farmerjan
Herd Master
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Didn't you ask about a bale carrier awhile back (may have been someone else on another forum?)...
I feel for you with the dog problem... and yes.....SSS .... they could go after the children if they can't get to the sheep. NO SYMPATHIES... dispose of the problems.
In that sort of a situation, yes an LGD might have to move up the priority list quite a bit... protection for the kids too...
I feel for you with the dog problem... and yes.....SSS .... they could go after the children if they can't get to the sheep. NO SYMPATHIES... dispose of the problems.
In that sort of a situation, yes an LGD might have to move up the priority list quite a bit... protection for the kids too...
- Thread starter
- #760
Margali
Herd Master
Yep, this one was pickup and delivered by my Brother-In-Laws. It apparently was a comedy of errors. We then got to shove it into the night pen with my highlander's hitch. All while the sheep tried to help.
