Meat Goat v/s Dairy Goat Feeds

[helmstead]

Deccox doesn't have a withdrawal time but I'm not sure about Rumensin...

 

[PJisaMom]

The only time you really must use a 'dairy' formula is when you are milking for human consumption. When we are doing so, only our lactating doe pen gets switched to the dairy formula...ALL OTHER GOATS are on medicated meat goat pellets.

I have a question, and I appreciate the clarifications you've provided. If there is essentially no difference between a meat and dairy pelleted feed, other than the specific AC and anti-cocci meds, then wouldn't and UN-medicated meat goat feed be considered essentially a "dairy" feed? (Please tell me yes, as I just returned from the feed store with a bag of unmedicated ADM Goat Power for my one-week fresh doe...)

I tried to put her on an unmedicated sweet feed slowly before she had the babies, but she's adamantly opposed to it. Did I mention adamantly?

If it's *not* the "same" or if I'm missing the point, steer me to an actual feed name that one could use for lactating does...

Thanks!

You're better off with your ADM ration than the sweet feed anyway. I was interested to read recently that the molasses in sweet feed is high in iron and can interfere with copper absorption. Kate can probably give us a short list of other reasons not to feed sweet feed... She'll be the one to clarify, but I *think* your unmedicated Goat Power is fine for your lactating gal. I'm thinking it's 15% instead of 16%...

Thanks for the info... I tried... Now I have 40lbs of sweet feed and no one to feed it to...

I did get a chance to check the bag tonight and I'm thinking it's 16% (and when we say that we are looking at the crude protein, right?). I have to say, this is the third bag of the Goat Power I've gotten, and it took her nearly the first two (feeding it only to her) to actually tolerate it.

So, if I'm "getting" it, we are looking at aiming for a pelleted 16% non-medicated feed for the production gals -- is there actually any bagged feed labeled as such that is NOT a sweet feed? That's where I've been experiencing a disconnect... so, Helmstead, your information is most appreciated.

Is there a reason to choose medicated Noble Goat over the medicated Goat Power for the rest?

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

ADM makes a Dairy Goat Power (16% protein) that is not a sweet feed. That's what we use on our milkers. It's non-medicated.

 

[20kidsonhill]

My feed has monensin in it, not rumensin???? It says it contains 20g/ton. And there is NO withdrawal listed.



Also, This feed is 16% protein and only 2.5% fat, my husband and I were thinking we needed to feed our girls a lactating feed with more like 13 or 14% protein and 3.5 to 4.5% fat. What do you all think??? The feed we are using is actually a bagged goat grower feed, we checked with this feed store that didn't offer anything that had more fat in it or less protein.

 

[helmstead]

Rumensin is the name brand for monensin...so they're the same.

It is really hard to find a goat feed with more than 2.5% fat. Interestingly, it is more important with goats to have higher roughage % in the feed than higher fat. You'll find that if you increase the roughage % in the bagged feed they will gain more quickly than if you just increase the fat. Here we mix in alfalfa pellets and a 36% protein concentrate to feed to our lactating girls...the final numbers on that feed come to just under 18% protein and 3.5% fat with (I think I remember right) 17% roughage/fiber. Then on the milking stanchion they get a 12% pellet we have to special order (actually a high end horse feed).

You will find some mixed arguments on how much protein is a good thing for lactating does. Some say higher protein is hard on them, some say they need it for good production. All I can say is what we're doing works for us.

PJisaMom - Noble Goat isn't a bad choice (would be my runner up if I couldn't get my hands on ADM)...but IMO ADM's feeds are a few notches better. You do have to be careful with Noble Goat and bucks because it is not available with AC in all regions/from all mills. Purina will also change the coccistat on you between batches - you have to read the tag on each bag to make sure you're not mixing Deccox and Rumensin.

 

[Emmetts Dairy]

I've been lurking, and find my fingers dying to post on this topic, so I'll start a thread to avoid further hijacking the original thread (http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=11618&p=3).

Those who are advising against long term use of a meat goat feed in dairy goats, this is for you.

The ONLY differences are:
1) a coccistat (Deccox/Rumesin/etc)
2) ammonium chloride (part of the time)

The whole reason there is dairy goat feed is that you don't want the coccistat in milk.

So there is a differance. I personally dont want my dairy herd on medication feed for such a long period of time, besides the obvious reason, that I dont want the people who drink their milk ingesting it. As stated...not good for single stomach animals..ie humans. I also dont want my girls to get any resistance to the drug they are ingesting. I do fecals reqularly and treat appropriatley. As all goat owners know resistance of any kind is not worth the risk. Although the grain mix besides the drugs in them may be very similar, not all want to put drugs into their goats systems daily or unneccesarily. And its important to find a balanced feed that fits your use.

MY POINT WAS...there are certain feeds for certain times of the animals life and use. So as your disagreeing with me...your basically saying the same thing.

The OP was using a sweet feed for bucks without AC in it....so advising her to use medicated feed was not the best answer IMO...its the AC in the feed thats most important for this instance...and yes...females can get it..rare..but it can happen. There are many differant feeds on the market. I dont use a strickly "Dairy Feed" Personally never saw one..but I dont use a medicated feed on my dairy goats for reasons stated above and more. And if I raised meat goats I can guarentee you I would use a feed that would be BEST for use and growth of the animal.

The point is using what works best for your herds needs and the health of the herd...because NOT all feeds are the SAME...and they are differant for many differant reasons. When owning goats..the best thing is to read labels, talk to your VETS and get what best suites your herd and their nutritional needs.

PS There is not a milk withdrawal on most coccistats used to my knowledge. But I still would'nt drink the milk cuz I personally dont want to ingest that.

 

[helmstead]

What you said was:

I do not feed medicated feed to my dairy herd at all and would not recomend that long term for dairy animals. It is designed for meat goats for a reason.

You have also missed the point. If you read more carefully, you will see that the point here comes to the base of quality goat pellets being the same. And beyond milk production for human consumption, there is no contradiction to using a medicated 'meat' formula for a dairy goat. In other words, I'm saying your recommendation that long term use in dairy animals could be a bad thing is incorrect. Doesn't hurt a thing...and the chance that you'll underdose a coccistat is highly unlikely unless they get less than a handful per day...which isn't enough feed to justify using feed anyway.

Not all dairy goats are milked for human consumption. Mine, actually, rarely are...I have too many bottle babies to feed.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

MY POINT WAS...there are certain feeds for certain times of the animals life and use. So as your disagreeing with me...your basically saying the same thing.

I'm going to jump in here for a second and clarify what I understand each of you to be saying. In the original thread, someone (can't remember who) was saying you shouldn't use meat goat feed for dairy breeds that you'll be keeping long term because it would make them too fat (or that was the assumption, that meat goat feed is meant to put weight on terminal goats quickly). What Kate is saying, is that except for any additives like a coccidiostat or AC, the feeds are the same....meaning the breakdown of feed (ingredients, % protein, fat, etc) is the same. Meat goat feed tends to be medicated and contain AC because generally people are feeding it to market wethers. This means you could feed it to your dairy goats (non-lactating) and they'd do just fine. The only reason you wouldn't want to use it for your milkers is because of the coccidiostat. Dairy goat feed typically doesn't contain a coccidiostat or AC because it's typically fed to lactating females.

 

[helmstead]

MY POINT WAS...there are certain feeds for certain times of the animals life and use. So as your disagreeing with me...your basically saying the same thing.

I'm going to jump in here for a second and clarify what I understand each of you to be saying. In the original thread, someone (can't remember who) was saying you shouldn't use meat goat feed for dairy breeds that you'll be keeping long term because it would make them too fat (or that was the assumption, that meat goat feed is meant to put weight on terminal goats quickly). What Kate is saying, is that except for any additives like a coccidiostat or AC, the feeds are the same....meaning the breakdown of feed (ingredients, % protein, fat, etc) is the same. Meat goat feed tends to be medicated and contain AC because generally people are feeding it to market wethers. This means you could feed it to your dairy goats (non-lactating) and they'd do just fine. The only reason you wouldn't want to use it for your milkers is because of the coccidiostat. Dairy goat feed typically doesn't contain a coccidiostat or AC because it's typically fed to lactating females.

Exactly and nutshelled...thanks

 

[20kidsonhill]

Rumensin is the name brand for monensin...so they're the same.

It is really hard to find a goat feed with more than 2.5% fat. Interestingly, it is more important with goats to have higher roughage % in the feed than higher fat. You'll find that if you increase the roughage % in the bagged feed they will gain more quickly than if you just increase the fat. Here we mix in alfalfa pellets and a 36% protein concentrate to feed to our lactating girls...the final numbers on that feed come to just under 18% protein and 3.5% fat with (I think I remember right) 17% roughage/fiber. Then on the milking stanchion they get a 12% pellet we have to special order (actually a high end horse feed).

You will find some mixed arguments on how much protein is a good thing for lactating does. Some say higher protein is hard on them, some say they need it for good production. All I can say is what we're doing works for us.

PJisaMom - Noble Goat isn't a bad choice (would be my runner up if I couldn't get my hands on ADM)...but IMO ADM's feeds are a few notches better. You do have to be careful with Noble Goat and bucks because it is not available with AC in all regions/from all mills. Purina will also change the coccistat on you between batches - you have to read the tag on each bag to make sure you're not mixing Deccox and Rumensin.

the crude fiber on the bag says 16%, roughage products is first on the list, followed by grain products. then grain-by-products. Does the order of the ingredients really matter, does that have to show the order of how much is in the bag compared to the other ingred?

I did the calculations and my goats are getting 10mg or monensin per lb of feed. So my adult goats are only getting 10mg per day. HMMMM. I hope that is enough and not ruining the way the medicine works, since I really have no intentions of giving them much more than that.