Meat Goat v/s Dairy Goat Feeds

[helmstead]

Roughage products first is good, that means your feed is probably alfalfa meal based.

According to the chart I found (published by the maker of Rumensin 100, with a side chart on generic Monensin doses)...since you're over 7.5 mg/head/day, you're good. The reading I did led me to believe that the lower you are on the chart the better, because overdosing monensin can cause weight loss & scouring (altho I think getting over 40 mg/head/day would be darn near impossible in a goat). The warnings were geared towards the actual feed mill - recommending to add the Rumensin/monensin to extruded pellets and not in a milled grain, so the product would not settle out and suddenly be ingested in large amounts or be picked through and not ingested at all or in adequate amounts.

 

[20kidsonhill]

Thanks for the topic, we went to the feed store this spring specifically looking for lactating ration for our meat does after they kid. We were confussed to see they didn't sell anything too different than what we are already using. they had 3 choices, but known that went, BAM I am for lactating goats. There are a lot of dairy goats around us, so that left me wondering what was up with that. There is another co-op on the otherside of us, but they have difficult hours for us to get to them, and they sell a 15% protein/higher fat feed than what we are using, it was not pelleted, it looked like oats and stuff like you would feed a horse. it was medicated and had AC in it for goats. We are thinking about trying that,

But are worried the kids wont switch over to the pelleted feed in the creep-feed zone as well, if the moms are eating a non-pelleted feed, I wouldn't call it a sweet feed, it didn't have tons of mollasses in it, it looked more like dry ground up oats, and little tiny peices of corn, ect..... I think it was 3.5 or 4.5 % fat.

 

[20kidsonhill]

Roughage products first is good, that means your feed is probably alfalfa meal based.

According to the chart I found (published by the maker of Rumensin 100, with a side chart on generic Monensin doses)...since you're over 7.5 mg/head/day, you're good. The reading I did led me to believe that the lower you are on the chart the better, because overdosing monensin can cause weight loss & scouring (altho I think getting over 40 mg/head/day would be darn near impossible in a goat). The warnings were geared towards the actual feed mill - recommending to add the Rumensin/monensin to extruded pellets and not in a milled grain, so the product would not settle out and suddenly be ingested in large amounts or be picked through and not ingested at all or in adequate amounts.

My show goats(50 to 70lb kids) are eating near 3 lbs a day, before we switch them over to show feed. That would be 30mg. Hmmmmm maybe that is too much.

That is interesting about the less is more. very good information to know.

so the doe that I was babying all winter, that is helping herself to feed everyday, she lets herself out and then back in to the barn, she is getting around 3 to 4 lbs of the feed a day, 30 to 40mg, that is probably not good for her. Hmmmmm

We were going to cull this doe, but after copper bolusing her and doing a few rounds of red cell and iron shots she is doing a lot better, we have since decided to give her another chance thinking perhaps she was really low on copper. I really need to do some blood work on her. sorry off topic.

 

[helmstead]

My show goats(50 to 70lb kids) are eating near 3 lbs a day, before we switch them over to show feed. That would be 30mg. Hmmmmm maybe that is too much.

That is interesting about the less is more. very good information to know.

so the doe that I was babying all winter, that is helping herself to feed everyday, she lets herself out and then back in to the barn, she is getting around 3 to 4 lbs of the feed a day, 30 to 40mg, that is probably not good for her. Hmmmmm

I would tend to say that if you aren't seeing weight loss (which obviously on show animals would be counterproductive!) that you're within the safe margin. I cannot find the actual mg/head/day that is dangerous. The 40 mg/head/day was just the top of the margin on that chart...they always give you just enough information to make you call...

 

[Griffin's Ark]

I don't know if I missed it or what, but if the feed has ammonium chloride in it, does that make the milk from the goats eating it... not desirable? Though does do not have the problems with UC that bucks do, they develop stones at the same rate and can cause irritation and infections. The reason I ask is because I have found an unmedicated goat feed that has AC in it and we feed it to all the goats over one year old.

 

[20kidsonhill]

My show goats(50 to 70lb kids) are eating near 3 lbs a day, before we switch them over to show feed. That would be 30mg. Hmmmmm maybe that is too much.

That is interesting about the less is more. very good information to know.

so the doe that I was babying all winter, that is helping herself to feed everyday, she lets herself out and then back in to the barn, she is getting around 3 to 4 lbs of the feed a day, 30 to 40mg, that is probably not good for her. Hmmmmm

I would tend to say that if you aren't seeing weight loss (which obviously on show animals would be counterproductive!) that you're within the safe margin. I cannot find the actual mg/head/day that is dangerous. The 40 mg/head/day was just the top of the margin on that chart...they always give you just enough information to make you call...

The bag of feed says feed free-choice, so you would think they would be taking a big eater into account, These are meat goats after all, They have very healthy appetites. It says you don't even have to feed hay or anything with it, designed to be the only feed. That would explain the alfalfa roughage in it, it does have very nice greenish pellets, we switched from another feed/co-op a few years ago, their goat grower feed was brown lookin, pellets crumbled too easily and feed was wasted, I am assuming it had more corn and soy in it.

It is amazing how 3 feed stores all with in a 10 minute drive from me, have such different 16 % goat developer/grower feed.

 

[helmstead]

GA - It doesn't affect the milk's flavor and is mostly water soluble and excreted through the urine...and is an FDA approved food additive, so is safe for human consumption (E510).

 

[helmstead]

20 - I have read a thread on another forum where a breeder's goats ate the 'dust' as she used the very last of a bag of medicated feed and became quite ill (severe scouring). We wondered at the time if the dust contained a concentrated amount of the medication...I surely bet that was the case. Luckily the feed I use is a good, firm pellet and we don't find much dust in the bags...just one of those things that stuck in my head though.

There is a similar thing around me. I live in Boer country and each producer around me does a different thing when it comes to show and market prep. Some use a milled feed like you described, some use pellets, some tout one brand over another...the feed mills (I have 4 within 30 minutes of me) seem to cater to the largest producer near them, and push that product that they made for that producer to the other producers. I personally prefer extruded pellets because they offer uniform intake and no picking through different grains to eat the 'candy'.

 

[PJisaMom]

PJisaMom - Noble Goat isn't a bad choice (would be my runner up if I couldn't get my hands on ADM)...but IMO ADM's feeds are a few notches better. You do have to be careful with Noble Goat and bucks because it is not available with AC in all regions/from all mills. Purina will also change the coccistat on you between batches - you have to read the tag on each bag to make sure you're not mixing Deccox and Rumensin.

Hmmm... *that's* interesting... why would they do that? It is hit or miss trying to get the Noble Goat around here, but the elevator keeps ADM Meat Goat Power pretty well stocked... Headed back there today to pick up the medicated version for everyone else and the babies, and see if they can order me the "dairy" version of the Goat Power for Lulu (again noted that it's really the same thing... ).

This has been a most beneficial discussion. Thank you!

 

[Emmetts Dairy]

What you said was:

I do not feed medicated feed to my dairy herd at all and would not recomend that long term for dairy animals. It is designed for meat goats for a reason.

You have also missed the point. If you read more carefully, you will see that the point here comes to the base of quality goat pellets being the same. And beyond milk production for human consumption, there is no contradiction to using a medicated 'meat' formula for a dairy goat. In other words, I'm saying your recommendation that long term use in dairy animals could be a bad thing is incorrect. Doesn't hurt a thing...and the chance that you'll underdose a coccistat is highly unlikely unless they get less than a handful per day...which isn't enough feed to justify using feed anyway.

Not all dairy goats are milked for human consumption. Mine, actually, rarely are...I have too many bottle babies to feed.

My condradiction to using a meat formula for dairy is "MEDICATION" in the feed. I dont do it...and dont recomend it. Thats my personal opinion. I never stated it would be bad for the animal per se. My opinion is based on use of animal and nutritional needs for thier use. But in my post on this thread I stated I am not a fan of using medication long term is because of resistance to the drug. Its a HUGE problem in the livestock world...including the anitbiotic use in the meat we buy in the grocery store which is a well known issue. Again this is my opinion I formulated after researching and finding the best needs of my herd and their use. I dont want to create superbugs in my herd and feel "IMO" is the best choice for my herd.

Agreed that most grains bases are similar...not issues with that...but my issue is that all feeds have additives for certain times of the goats life and the use of the livestock. So for the optimum preformance of the animals you are raising it is important to understand the diety needs for those animals for thier use. As you stated you dont have alot of lactacing does you are milking..you find it not to be a problem to use a medicated feed for all it works for you and thats okay.

I'm a dairy farmer and use my does for milking...not meat. I am not INCORRECT in saying that I dont want my goats on medicated feed long term. Its a choice I have made over the years...works well for me. I also dont feed my chickens medicated feed either. I consume them and choose not to eat a side of antibiotics with my chicken. Personal choice.

That was the point I was trying to get across in the post...and apparently it did'nt come out clear enough. I personally dont use medicated feeds for dairy animals..and dont recomend it cuz certain animals need certain nutrition for the needs and use.

All herdmans will have differant opinions on feeds and what works well for them....so no one right or wrong here. And its important we both help stress the importance of nutritional needs for differant uses of peoples livestock. Cuz as we both witnessed on this forum incorrect feedings of the animals can be detrimental to the animal. So thats my story and Im sticking to it!!

The best advice I can give to all who are unsure now after reading this is too understand the nutritional needs of a goat/ruminant and learn about what their nutritional needs are for what their being used for and their age etc...all of that should be considered when feeding time comes. Most have already formulated an opinion on medicating or non...organic or non.

Good luck!! Happy chomp chomping goaties!!