Milk Goat Registration???

[Egg_Newton]

Am I thinking about this right? I have a ND doe yearling that the sire is NDGA registered but the dam is not. So, I can fill out my registration papers and just put dam as "unknown" and my doe will be registered as 50%?

 

[OneFineAcre]

I don't think so. I must admit my knowledge of NDGA rules is limited. Only 3 of my animals are NDGA registered, they were registered when I bought them. We only register with ADGA.

I know that ADGA definitely doesn't do that.

I don't think NDGA does either. I know one of the first 3 goats we got was a doe who's sire was registered and her dam was not. I seem to recall we looked to see if there was any way to register her with NDGA and could not.

 

[Egg_Newton]

Well shoot! You are right. I emailed NDGA registrar and they said no. Does anyone know of any of the other registries I could use? Asfar as I know sire is only registered with NDGA.

 

[cindyg]

I'm quite certain that the mini breeds can not be registered as percentage anywhere. Only the large breeds can be bred up.

 

[OneFineAcre]

I'm quite certain that the mini breeds can not be registered as percentage anywhere. Only the large breeds can be bred up.

You are correct. Nigerian Dwarf is a "purebred" registry only. No percentages, no "native on appearance". Registered dam and registered buck exclusively.

 

[Hardy&Healthy]

I have LaMancha dairy goats and use the ADGA. So, this may not help at all, but maybe...?

Do you own the dam? If so (or if not, maybe the owner of the dam would be willing to do this if you paid the fees)... Does the NDGA have a 'Native on Appearance' option (where they have you take the doe to be examined by an approved member and/or send in pictures = they approve your doe to produce "recorded grade" doe offspring)? I know the ADGA does this with the manchies, but ND=?

If not, will the ADGA accept your NDGA reg animals? If so, will they allow the NOA on the ND? I believe they do not allow experimental status on crossing full sized with ND, but maybe ND on ND they do...?

 

[Hardy&Healthy]

... And I am just now seeing the post right above mine, which pretty much nips those ideas in the bud.

I will ask a friend of ours that breeds Mini-Manchas (ND X Lamancha to a certain generation) and registers them. Maybe there is another less know registry she knows of that could help you.

 

[OneFineAcre]

I have LaMancha dairy goats and use the ADGA. So, this may not help at all, but maybe...?

Do you own the dam? If so (or if not, maybe the owner of the dam would be willing to do this if you paid the fees)... Does the NDGA have a 'Native on Appearance' option (where they have you take the doe to be examined by an approved member and/or send in pictures = they approve your doe to produce "experimental"/percentage doe offspring)? I know the ADGA does this with the manchies, but ND=?

If not, will the ADGA accept your NDGA reg animals? If so, will they allow the NOA on the ND? I believe they do not allow experimental status on crossing full sized with ND, but maybe ND on ND they do...?

No, No, No.
ADGA does not accept animals that are exclusively registered with NDGA. if they are not registered with the AGS or the CGS (Canadian) they will not accept. They do not recognize NDGA registered animals.
ADGA registers recorded grades, a cross between a registered standard goat to a registered standard goat of a different breed, i.e. a Sannen to an Alpine. They do not recognize "minis" a cross between a ND and a standard.

No registry recognizes Native on Appearance for ND's. Here is why. I cross a ND buck to an Alpine doe. I cross that kid to an ND buck. I cross that kid to an ND buck and suddenly I don't know who the dam is. So I register Native on Appearance. I've got a 7/8 Alpine registered as an ND. She has a huge advantage. ND's will always be and should always be a purebred herd book IMO. There are already too many out there that have already been crossed again IMO. Well, it isn't really just my opinion. Anybody who really knows about ND's knows that a farm here in NC did that. I've seen some of their animals as far away as California at this point. I cringe every time I see a registered Nigerian Dwarf with Swiss markings on their face.

 

[Egg_Newton]

Closest I've came is a Certificate of Identification from ADGA and possibly Grade with IDGR. But, if nothing at all she is a beautiful goat even if she doesn't have papers ever.

 

[Hardy&Healthy]

I have LaMancha dairy goats and use the ADGA. So, this may not help at all, but maybe...?

Do you own the dam? If so (or if not, maybe the owner of the dam would be willing to do this if you paid the fees)... Does the NDGA have a 'Native on Appearance' option (where they have you take the doe to be examined by an approved member and/or send in pictures = they approve your doe to produce "recorded grade" doe offspring)? I know the ADGA does this with the manchies, but ND=?

If not, will the ADGA accept your NDGA reg animals? If so, will they allow the NOA on the ND? I believe they do not allow experimental status on crossing full sized with ND, but maybe ND on ND they do...?

No, No, No.
ADGA does not accept animals that are exclusively registered with NDGA. if they are not registered with the AGS or the CGS (Canadian) they will not accept. They do not recognize NDGA registered animals.
ADGA registers recorded grades, a cross between a registered standard goat to a registered standard goat of a different breed, i.e. a Sannen to an Alpine. They do not recognize "minis" a cross between a ND and a standard.

No registry recognizes Native on Appearance for ND's. Here is why. I cross a ND buck to an Alpine doe. I cross that kid to an ND buck. I cross that kid to an ND buck and suddenly I don't know who the dam is. So I register Native on Appearance. I've got a 7/8 Alpine registered as an ND. She has a huge advantage. ND's will always be and should always be a purebred herd book IMO. There are already too many out there that have already been crossed again IMO. Well, it isn't really just my opinion. Anybody who really knows about ND's knows that a farm here in NC did that. I've seen some of their animals as far away as California at this point. I cringe every time I see a registered Nigerian Dwarf with Swiss markings on their face.

Hmmm, I am not sure if I should be offended or not. The tone I am reading in your reply gives me the impression that you either felt I was portraying myself as a 'know it all' and you need to 'set me straight' or I offended you somehow (I don't know how I could have, but if I did, I am truly sorry!). I never claimed to know how they tended to NDs within the registry(s). I said I was suggesting ADGA LaMancha based ideas, that maybe this person could translate to ND in some way. And I specifically said I did NOT think the ADGA allowed experimental status from a cross between NDs and full sizes. I suppose there is always the chance that you were 'just typing away' and the 'tone' I am sensing is purely a coincidence...? I will hope the latter to be the case and will move on without any intentions of being "snarky" back.

Okay, maybe just one...
Was this because I am new to the herd? Are we are establishing a pecking order?
Puns intended! Of course this was just for chuckles.


I have Purebred LaManchas (although over the years I have had the occasional RG, EX, AM and various other full sized breeds) in the ADGA...

"Native on Appearance" (NOA)/ Recorded Grade (RG) reg. does can be bred to a "Purebred" (PB) or "American" (AM) buck to produce % does. Only does can obtain NOA / RG or % status.

A 50% doe can only be bred to a PB or AM buck, producing a 75% doe. Etc. Once 3 generations have passed (bringing the % to a high enough point), does may be recorded as American. Bucks can be recorded as AM on the 4th generation.

An "Experimental" (EX) is the offspring of two PB or AM goats of different breeds. They are able to be bred up, similarly to the RG, to reach American status.

With most breeds, only breeding PB to another PB of the same breed can produce a PB!

Did I get it down right without jumbling the terms? I am a member of 8 horse registries, 6 goat registries, 2 cattle registries, 1 pig registry, and...? I *think* that might be it. LOL A lot of the registries use the same patterns and terminologies, however not in the same places. ARG!!! LOL


I am almost 100% sure the ADGA does NOT allow registering of any crosses between Nigerian Dwarfs and full sized breeds. However, there is at least one association that does (as a girlfriend of mine breeds papered MiniManchas).

As for Pure 100% goats vs 99.9999999% goats, vs percentage, and even "mutt" goats. I personally like my 100% goats, but I think they all have their place!!! There are only so many ways you can 'diversify' your breeding in a measured pool of genes! Also, some might have a different purpose or desires, and might benefit with the use of non-100% goats. I am not so sure only having pure-100% as an option is the best for *everyone*...? I do believe having statuses are a great and probably necessary idea! "Purebreds" (or what ever term the reg. designates, lol) 100% goats, once established that the reg. has enough of a gene pool, should only be obtainable by the breeding of two PB goats of the same breed. Having designated statuses to track levels of %, and more importantly pedigrees; would allow someone to avoid inbreeding. What is the harm of allowing other statuses? I do not think I understood your issue with it. I know you had mentioned a person being dishonest when breeding their ND goats, and therefore having crosses registered as PBs. But that just sounds like a dishonest person. Sadly, they will always be around. However, maybe if there were other statuses to allow that person to register their cross goats, they might not have felt the need to be dishonest. Your other argument was the NOA goats (which I believe you were trying to say a 7/8 ND being registered as PB), but NOA goats do not get any starting percentage. They start with a 'zero'. It is only a way for the registry to track pedigree information as far back as possible. Breeding them to a 100% will only give you a 50%. Etc. Even if you had a 100% PB goat with lost papers and registered it as NOA, you would still have to breed for multiple generations to raise the %, and would *never* be able to 'breed up' to PB status (the exception being the two breeds that are still too small in the gene pool to close the books yet). Maybe a misunderstanding of what starting % NOA receives is what 'put you off' the idea...? If not could you try to explain to me again? Maybe there is something I am not considering...?